FarmerTy Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 This would/could happen with the phosphate spike as well. The only two parameters I have experienced causing me issues with SPS are alk obviously, but also rapid changes in phosphate level as well. While it's still early to diagnose what's causing your issues, I would see if perhaps a newly acquired piece, such as a tester frag from my tank, does in comparison to the other SPS. If it stays happy while the others are still ticked, then I would assume they are still recovering from the water parameter changes/fluctuations. If it itself succumbs and does not look so good either, than we know something within your system is causing it. My guess for now is still light acclimation. I am however not an LED guy so I don't have much advice other than the obvious, slow acclimation and maybe turning down the leds a bit while acclimating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I am with you on the light thing. I just dropped them another 5% from a max of 50% to 45%. With the new corals, that is all I can think of right now as to what the issue is. I have been maintaining pretty good numbers especially with the addition of the dosers. I have been testing a lot to make sure things are not fluctuating out of control. Things have stayed within the accepted parameters with no real swings. Let's see if dropping the lights down help. I have read that some people with Radions have had to drop their intensity to 30% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I know that when my brother ran LEDs, he was running at 60% for the longest time and had terrible success in keeping his SPS happy. Then when he dropped it down to something like 30%, his SPS went nuts. He slowly acclimated them to a higher percentage and they adjusted slowly to the higher intensity over time. I think the biggest problem with most LED transitions is that the perceived visual cues that we use to determine brightness = higher par is thrown off with LEDs because they may look a lot dimmer at an equal par to a MH unit, so the natural thing is to keep turning it up to visually match the older lighting. At that point, you may be cooking your coral. To add to that, the percentages themselves throw it off because its human nature to think that if we have 100%, that eventually it needs to end up there to get the most out of your unit. In most cases, you'll never use 100%, or 70% for that matter. Just because it's there, doesn't mean the ideal setting is to one day get to 100%. Max on your fixtures in your particular setup may be 45% for all we know. Each system/setup will vary. If we can attune ourselves to thinking that 45% is the new 100% (similar to Orange being the new Black), then I think a lot of people will have less issues with the LED conversion. Just my 2 cents though and not entirely pertaining to your system MadSalt. Just a quick mind dump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I knew there was probably no way I could run these radions at 100% so my initial starting point was 60%. I have since dropped down to 50% and now 45%. I will continue to drop down in 5% increments until things start to look happy. I have to believe that my intensity is the culprit at this point. I remember watching one of Mark Callahans videos on radions and I think he was at like 30% over his tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 23, 2015 Author Share Posted March 23, 2015 I think you have a great plan sir! Keep me posted on the progress of your SPS during this light transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So the tank is just trudging along. I know I just started adjusting the lights but I have to think I have something else going on. I would imagine that if my lights were way too high, I would see problems but I was only at 60%. I have been reading SChrisEV thread about SPS problems and I am wondering if I am still having alk issues. I saw something about a correction factor for the hanna checkers, didn't know this was a possibility. So perhaps I need to determine if I have an issue that I need to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 60% may even be the max you'd ever run. I'd run with that test first. I highly doubt it's the alk, especially if your numbers are around 9 dKh. The worry for SChrisEv was that his alk was lower, and so with the correction factor, may really be lower than that so he could potentially be tip-toeing dangerous on the low side. With your 9 dKh, even if yours read low, you'd still probably be in the 7.5-8 range and that's perfectly acceptable for SPS. I have the alk standard if you want to use it. Just swing by and bring your unit and we can test it out and work on your correction factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I may just do that. I might as well knock as many possible factors as I can. I need to get your stuff back to anyway. I am off tomorrow so I will for sure be dropping your stuff at minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Sounds like a plan. I should be around tomorrow. I'm giving myself a much deserved day off before the weekend gets here! Just text me when you have a timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 The tank is till trudging along. Did a new round of testing and here is where I stand alk - 8.6 - resetting my usage to get a better rate. The usage rate was a bit high and I was steadily climbing to the 10 range. After tonight I should have a better usage rate so I can start to get my dosage back on track calc - 420 mag- 1320 ph - 8.25 sal - 1.025 po - 0.5 ni - between 5 and 10, higher than I want. My skimmer has not been producing much gunk and I'm not sure why. So my export of nutrients is not as efficient as I would like. Looks like I might have some water changes in the near future. API kit temp - 77.5 I have had my lights at 40% max for a 5 hour period for 5 days now and my LPS and zoas do not seem to like it much. They are not reaching for light, they are actually a bit retracted. I am going to continue to ride the light change to see what happens. With my parameters where they need to be, I can only imagine that I still need to dial in my lights. The only thing that changes throughout the day is the light intensity. The setting for each color stay the same. I attached my radion profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 What's your alk trend been looking like? I didn't realize you had gotten up to 10 dKh at one point. Also, is your phosphate 0.05 ppm or 0.5 ppm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I will know tonight what my alk usage is when I get home. I was at around 9.7 almost 9.8 when I turned the doser off and let things slowly come down on their own. This have been over 4 days so it has been a slow decline. I would say it drops about 2 to 3 dkh per day, that is what it has been dropping. I did a test last night and I will test when I get home, I will use this test to adjust my dosing program and then start the rise back to around 9 My nitrates are 5.0 ppm per the APU test kit. I really need to get a better test kit for my nitrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 Any particular reason you're aiming for 9 dKh? Also, I was asking about your phosphate concentration. Were you getting 0.05 ppm or 0.5 ppm? Your nitrates are fine for now but I still doubt it's results as it was reading about that concentration but my Red Sea was reading around 20 ppm if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 ooops on the nitrate vs phosphate, its been a long day lol. You know what it was late when I tested, so I will have to run it again when I get home. I just figure 9dkh was a safe place without being too low or too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 28, 2015 Author Share Posted March 28, 2015 I figured the phosphate was a typo and you really are at 0.05 ppm, because I remember you saying you were at 0.1 ppm last time I believe. I was asking just out of curiosity only. 9 dKh is fine, though I've noticed that there is such a high range of alk levels run on successful SPS tanks so I don't really think there's much rule of thumb to it. If I try to take mine past 8.5-9 dKh, I get burnt tips and STN but that's because I'm running biopellets. That might be a good experiment for you while you have the SPS tester corals. See what alk they prefer and keep it stable there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 So you remember I was way low and I was bringing it up. I thought I was good at 9 but my calculation was a little of so it was climbing on me. I want to maintain 8.5 to 9 so I know what I am working with. This way as I add corals I can scratch the alk parameter off my list of potential problems. I still think my lights are giving me a fit. I have noticed that since I dropped my light down to 40% my LPS and zoas do not like it. I had a small colony on the right that were big and bright, now they are noticeably smaller and not as bright. I have started a Radion thread to see what kind of feedback I can get from our fellow reefers when it comes to Radions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 So when I got home and tested my alk was 8.54 and my phos was 0.04. I am going to actually aim to keep my alk around the 8.5 range I think. There is no need to try and drive it up to 9. Hopefully I can get it to settle here at this range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 I like that plan and it's good to know you weren't reading 0.5 ppm as listed before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Note to self when making an alkalinity adjustment make sure you set the apex back to auto On the bright side I have an apex so I can adjust it and turn it on now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Ahh, the world of Apex and 2-part dosing. It's like the perfect marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 Sad, the head of my golden hammer coral has popped off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Oh no! Any idea what caused it? Generally I hear of high salinity, high nitrates, or lighting changes causing the polyp bailout. I have never experienced it myself so I can't lend my own observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 No clue, pretty bummed, it was a gorgeous coral Salinity is 1.025 Nitrates are between 5 and 10 The biggest change was me lowering the lights. I am actually going to make a big move in terms of my lighting. I am happy with parameters, I think I have finally got a handle of where they need to be and how to adjust them if I have to. I have been talking to SAMs and he has Radion Gen 2s like I have and a 150 gallon tank, so pretty close to mine. I am going to emulate his lighting profile and let things ride with what I have right now. He obviously has the light thing on lockdown as his tank looks great. My lights are a bit lower than his so I will have to adjust my intensity just a little I know each tank is different but I have always believed my lights are part of my issue and a 40% light level I believe is too low. The corals I have now won't get any worse in my opinion, the light I think I can only help. It is possible that I just didn't have enough light. Since I dropped my light level my green hammers and zoas have not been happy at all. So parameters are where I want to keep them Lights are about to change Letting things settle light wise 1 to 2 weeks Will then add some new corals unless some small testers come in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted March 29, 2015 Author Share Posted March 29, 2015 Are you seeing your zoa polyps stretch at all? That's the easiest indicator of low light any of us reefers can have. I think you have the right idea of mimicking someone else's tank instead of reinventing the wheel. Following Sam's lighting settings and adjusting it to your own tank is sound logic to me. I still don't trust your nitrate numbers but I honestly don't think they are a problem. My guess is they are around 20-25 ppm as you were reading 5-10ppm when I had tested with my Red Sea test kit when we first started the Reboot and it was reading around 20-25 ppm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madsalt Posted March 29, 2015 Share Posted March 29, 2015 I'll see if I can pick up a red sea nitrate kit I am actually seeing my zoas retract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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