prettyfishy76 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I have a 29 gallon BioCube that I have been housing my Betta Rubras in since November 2012. I have had them for close 2 years. They have always been healthy - I have never had any health issues with them. I bought 4 White Cloud Mountain Minnows and 8 Red-Fin Tetras last Saturday, 03/31/13, from a LFS. I performed a 25% water change before introducing them. Since then, 2 of the WCMMs and 4 of the Red-Fin Tetras have disappeared. I can only assume the bettas killed them and something ate them. Not sure if bettas ate them or if ghost shrimp and cory cats disposed of their bodies. I did notice that a couple of the bettas had rather LARGE stomachs after the disappearances. Anyways, starting yesterday, 04/03, I noticed that one of my bettas was distressed and was white about the face. Her mouth was a little beat up, too. I thought that she gotten in a fight with another fish, so I decided to check on them again this morning. Well, this morning, she was dead. Her body had more loss of color - no fuzz, just colorless scales. I am kicking myself for not taking a photo of her. Now, another female betta is showing the same symptoms, except the loss of coloration is not on her face, but are patches on her body. She does not appear comfortable and her body condition is not ideal. I noticed another betta with a colorless patch on its back. I have attached photos of the one female with the multiple patches. Has anyone seen this before? I honestly have no idea what this is. It looks like it kills them fast, which is upsetting me as I am highly attached to these fish. Could they have caught something this quickly from the new additions of minnows and tetras? The minnows and tetras do not have any sickly traits. Please help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I have never seen this before. Are the scales still smooth or are they raised up? I would for sure use "stress coat" which just helps replace the natural slime coat on the fish. Have you checked your water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Some google results suggest that water quality may be an issue. and adding 12 fish at once is quite a bit of an increase in bio load. You may have gotten some spikes. I would also consider using melafix, or another antibiotic. If the scales are poking out it may be dropsy. But if not, it could be some other bacteria. According to my fish guy you can never go wrong trying melafix (based on tea tree oil, so it smells nice, too). Since several of you fish died immediately, I would think bacteria on the new fish could be a concern. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Sorry, I was rereading and had forgotten about the first betta. Did the face and mouth look like this http://www.google.com/search?q=mouth+fungus+fish&hl=en&client=safari&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=M1NeUdCmAqmU2QXp74CICg&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672 That's a google image search for mouth fungus, which is not a fungus, but a bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I would guess its something that the minnows brought in... they are awful for carrying parasites/bacteria/fungus.... I would guess to treat with melafix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Sorry, I was rereading and had forgotten about the first betta. Did the face and mouth look like this http://www.google.com/search?q=mouth+fungus+fish&hl=en&client=safari&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=M1NeUdCmAqmU2QXp74CICg&ved=0CDQQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=672 That's a google image search for mouth fungus, which is not a fungus, but a bacteria. Her mouth did not look like those photos. The mouth was slightly extended and honestly looked like she had gotten in a mouth-grabbing fight with another betta. The colorless (white) area started at her mouth and went back towards her eyes. When I found her dead yesterday, her eyes were clouded and the colorless scales went from her mouth to past her belly. I would guess its something that the minnows brought in... they are awful for carrying parasites/bacteria/fungus.... I would guess to treat with melafix That is what I am thinking, too. I just didn't realize the other fish would catch something from the minnows/tetras that quickly. It is looking as if my entire betta group will fall to this disease. I found yet another betta with a small white, colorless patch growing on the top of his head. I'll look into the melafix. May have to move them ALL to a hospital tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 I have never seen this before. Are the scales still smooth or are they raised up? I would for sure use "stress coat" which just helps replace the natural slime coat on the fish. Have you checked your water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Some google results suggest that water quality may be an issue. and adding 12 fish at once is quite a bit of an increase in bio load. You may have gotten some spikes. I would also consider using melafix, or another antibiotic. If the scales are poking out it may be dropsy. But if not, it could be some other bacteria. According to my fish guy you can never go wrong trying melafix (based on tea tree oil, so it smells nice, too). Since several of you fish died immediately, I would think bacteria on the new fish could be a concern. Good luck. I apologize for not seeing your post before my last reply. The scales are mostly smooth, especially where the white patches are. There are some spots where the scales look a little "roughed up," but they aren't poking out like I have seen with dropsy. Stress coat is great suggestion, though. I'm going to check the water parameters today and get back to you. When using Melafix, is it best to treat them all in a hospital tank? Or, would it be good to dose ALL the different fish in there? Besides the bettas, minnows and tetras, I have 3 Otocinclus and 3 cory cats and some ghost shrimp. None of these fish are showing the same signs as the bettas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I have never seen this before. Are the scales still smooth or are they raised up? I would for sure use "stress coat" which just helps replace the natural slime coat on the fish. Have you checked your water for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates. Some google results suggest that water quality may be an issue. and adding 12 fish at once is quite a bit of an increase in bio load. You may have gotten some spikes. I would also consider using melafix, or another antibiotic. If the scales are poking out it may be dropsy. But if not, it could be some other bacteria. According to my fish guy you can never go wrong trying melafix (based on tea tree oil, so it smells nice, too). Since several of you fish died immediately, I would think bacteria on the new fish could be a concern. Good luck. I apologize for not seeing your post before my last reply. The scales are mostly smooth, especially where the white patches are. There are some spots where the scales look a little "roughed up," but they aren't poking out like I have seen with dropsy. Stress coat is great suggestion, though. I'm going to check the water parameters today and get back to you. When using Melafix, is it best to treat them all in a hospital tank? Or, would it be good to dose ALL the different fish in there? Besides the bettas, minnows and tetras, I have 3 Otocinclus and 3 cory cats and some ghost shrimp. None of these fish are showing the same signs as the bettas. i would treat the whole tank. again, from my fish guy, melafix is safe for everything. and if it is a bacteria you want it out of the tank. the others may just be as sensitive as the bettas. be sure to take out the activated charcol from your filter before treatment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 LFS tested water. They said the water parameters are within a normal range. So, it doesn't look like I am on the way to crashing the tank. Thank goodness. The LFS said it looks like Columnaris. Anyone here have experience with this? My husband was sent home with Triple Sulfa, but I keep seeing articles that mention a combination of Kanamycin and Furan 2. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 I too recommend treating the entire tank... because whatever is causing it has been exsposed and growing in the tank so treating the entire tank and all fish is best... it is safe even if the fish aren't showing any signs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 LFS tested water. They said the water parameters are within a normal range. So, it doesn't look like I am on the way to crashing the tank. Thank goodness. The LFS said it looks like Columnaris. Anyone here have experience with this? My husband was sent home with Triple Sulfa, but I keep seeing articles that mention a combination of Kanamycin and Furan 2. Thoughts? i have never heard of that disease or any of those meds. just be careful that some medications are not compatible with inverts like your shrimp. also, i would caution against adding so many fish at one time in the future. and, my g/f is getting a betta and has been obsessively researching the subject. it is very hard to introduce fish to an established tanks with schools of bettas. if you want send me a pm and i can have her give you some pointers. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ok - triple sulfa is along the lines of Te Furan 2 which is sulfur based. Just so you know. Treats fungal...<br /><br />I would add Kanamacin also - as it is absorbed thru skin better. Broad spectrum antibiotic - gram positive and negative. Which usually comes along with advanced fungal infections.<br /><br />I have treated with both together and there is no problem. It's a recommended combo by lots of fish pharmacies. <br /><br />Watch Melafix with Bettas - because the melaleuca? (Tea tree oil) affects the way their labyrinth organs works. Bettafix is just diluted Melafix and people have had problems with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Dang, sorry. I didn't know about betta and melafix. Glad you got better info at the LFS. Thanks for the info Nwehrman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 No problem - learned alot the hard way... People think cause its labeled for Bettas it's safe but it's not. <br /><br /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 6, 2013 Author Share Posted April 6, 2013 Ok - triple sulfa is along the lines of Te Furan 2 which is sulfur based. Just so you know. Treats fungal...<br /><br />I would add Kanamacin also - as it is absorbed thru skin better. Broad spectrum antibiotic - gram positive and negative. Which usually comes along with advanced fungal infections.<br /><br />I have treated with both together and there is no problem. It's a recommended combo by lots of fish pharmacies. <br /><br />Watch Melafix with Bettas - because the melaleuca? (Tea tree oil) affects the way their labyrinth organs works. Bettafix is just diluted Melafix and people have had problems with that. Now that I recall, I did kill a couple of betta splendons with Melafix. I can't believe I had forgotten about that. I bought some KanaPlex along with Furan-2. I had some suggestions that I could use them as a combo. The female I had posted pictures of is dead. The others look OK for now, but I am going to start treating ASAP. When you combine two medications, is it suggested to use them at full strength or cut the dosages in half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I'm sorry, I don't know. But I hear that the bettafish.com forums have two good threads under bettafish diseases and emergencies about treatment. Maybe they can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Full strength on both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Any news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 9, 2013 Author Share Posted April 9, 2013 Full strength on both Thank you for that advice. I went on ahead and did that. Any news? I am on evening 4 of a treatment of KanaPlex and Furan-2. I have not had any bettas die since the first two before treatment. None of the tank inhabitants have reacted negatively to the medication, either. There hasn't been a progression in the small pale patch that had shown up on one of the bettas before treatment. I am thinking this is a good thing. All fish are eating and acting as normally as they can without the lights on (due to the Furan-2). I will update everyone again in a couple of days. I am hoping that I am able to keep this issue under control. Thank you for all of the help so far. All of the advice has been extremely appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Keep us updated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 9, 2013 Share Posted April 9, 2013 Hooray! Still keeping my fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prettyfishy76 Posted April 16, 2013 Author Share Posted April 16, 2013 UPDATE After going through a combination treatment of Furan-2 and KanaPlex, my betta rubras seem to have recovered from their infection. After the first two fish died early on, I have not had any other deaths. The fish that started showing the colorless patches have regained their natural colors. I can tell that they feel a lot better because they have started displaying breeding behaviors. Thank you to EVERYONE for the help and support with this issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 that is great news. congratulations. thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nwehrman Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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