Nitrates have spiked up to about 60!

[KarenM]

Did some testing this morning to see why the BTA is still so unhappy and found my nitrates have spiked again. I just did a water change on Friday, about 25%. I've been doing the 25% every week. I've cut back on the amount I'm feeding them, even added the chaeto. Not only can I not get the nitrates down, but they're increasing.

I'm using an API test kit. Water is clear and looks great. Temp is about 79, ammonia is zero, nitrites have elevated slightly from zero to between zero and .25, ph is about 7.8 (low - but I have a buffer. Didn't use it at last water change on advice of LFS person). Nitrates look to be between 40 and 80.

What can I do to get these down?

[Headless_donkey]

Water change! Is something rotting in the tank? Nitrites are not a good sign. I my guess is something died, you haven't found it, and it is decaying in the tank. I would do another 20 gallon or at least ten gallon change (assuming your tank is 40 gallons). The cheato should help, but the immediate solution is a water change. Cutting back on feeding is also an excellent idea. It could be food and tons of waste is causing that less then perfect water conditions.

Do you have bio balls in the system? If so I would replace them with live rock rubble. I would also wash or replace any sponge or filter pads in the system. Nitrates are hard to battle. If these things don't work then you could try a remote sand bed, but that can be a touch more complicated.

[KarenM]

Water change! Is something rotting in the tank? Nitrites are not a good sign. I my guess is something died, you haven't found it, and it is decaying in the tank. I would do another 20 gallon or at least ten gallon change (assuming your tank is 40 gallons). The cheato should help, but the immediate solution is a water change. Cutting back on feeding is also an excellent idea. It could be food and tons of waste is causing that less then perfect water conditions.

Do you have bio balls in the system? If so I would replace them with live rock rubble. I would also wash or replace any sponge or filter pads in the system. Nitrates are hard to battle. If these things don't work then you could try a remote sand bed, but that can be a touch more complicated.

Ok, I'll run get more water and more chaeto, as mine is almost gone. And I'll do a headcount and see what's missing. No bio balls, no sponges. And I just changed the filter media in the powerfilter last week.

[Noodle]

Maybe the nitrates are spiked due to the first anemone dying, and you said you thought your BTA looked unwell too. Could it be that it is in the process of dying and it is decaying in the water and fouling it up?

I agree with Headless, do emergency water changes of something like 25%-30% and continue doing it on subsequent days until the nitrates are back to less elevated levels. Best of luck.

[KarenM]

Maybe the nitrates are spiked due to the first anemone dying, and you said you thought your BTA looked unwell too. Could it be that it is in the process of dying and it is decaying in the water and fouling it up?

I agree with Headless, do emergency water changes of something like 25%-30% and continue doing it on subsequent days until the nitrates are back to less elevated levels. Best of luck.

My BTA is still hanging in there - it's opened a little more and still eating.

I don't have new water mixed up. Would it be better to mix it and let it sit overnight, or mix it and use it immediately?

[Noodle]

I haven't heard any bad stories of mixing it and using it immediately. Just make sure that all salt is dissolved before using. I'd probably start prepping another mix for the next day's water change too.

[Headless_donkey]

In this case I would mix for an hour or two and do the change. I would start another batch of water like Noodle suggested for the up coming days. It may seem like your using a ton of water and salt, but that is better then your tank going south. I also wouldn't panic too much.

[KarenM]

OK, I changed out 15 gal with 15 gal of IO premixed from RCA. Should I do another 15 tomorrow or Tuesday?

I think my blenny is dead. I can't find him anywhere. I shined the flashlight into all the caves that I could see, and tried to vacuum out some of the others. No sign of him. Short of dismantling my rock pile I don't know how else to find him. If he is dead and what's causing my nitrate problem, about how long will that last?

[Headless_donkey]

As for the water change I would test the water tomorrow and see what you get. I would try to roll until Tuesday. Sorry, about the blenny. I would think unless he is HUGE you should be on the down hill run. Please don't quote me on that.

[KarenM]

As for the water change I would test the water tomorrow and see what you get. I would try to roll until Tuesday. Sorry, about the blenny. I would think unless he is HUGE you should be on the down hill run. Please don't quote me on that.

My blenny was pretty small. I hope things are about to stabilize. Just a couple of hours later and my BTA already looks so much better. I wish I'd have checked the water on Saturday when I noticed it didn't look so good, but I thought it was unhappy about being moved around a little bit. I know it wads itself up when the temp gets over 80, and now I know that it does the same thing when the nitrates soar. Another lesson learned.

[xcreonx]

How old is this tank btw?

[KarenM]

How old is this tank btw?

It's about 4 months old. I cycled it with Bio-Spira. My nitrates have never been at zero, although everything else always has. They've always stayed between 5 - 10. After the first water change on Sunday (15 gal) , the nitrates were about 15 on Monday. I put some more chaeto and some caulerpa in on Monday, and I changed about 12 gal yesterday, so I'll test it again today.

[xcreonx]

If your tank is 4 months old and your nitrates never reached zero then your tank has not yet cycled completely. Anemones need better conditions, some will say a year-old, matured tank. They are VERY sensitive to nitrates.

I would bet your nitrate problem stems from the fact that your tank didnt cycle and as you add animals, the tank can't keep up... so nitrates, etc. etc. all rise.

You really need to get your nitrogen cycle completed before adding any more animals. Do you have someone with a mature tank who can hold your animals while your tank matures? You're just going to keep fighting this problem unless you take care of it now.

Don't add anything until your nitrates are zero. This is how you know the cycle is complete. It will take months so patience is vital.

[KarenM]

If your tank is 4 months old and your nitrates never reached zero then your tank has not yet cycled completely. Anemones need better conditions, some will say a year-old, matured tank. They are VERY sensitive to nitrates.

I would bet your nitrate problem stems from the fact that your tank didnt cycle and as you add animals, the tank can't keep up... so nitrates, etc. etc. all rise.

You really need to get your nitrogen cycle completed before adding any more animals. Do you have someone with a mature tank who can hold your animals while your tank matures? You're just going to keep fighting this problem unless you take care of it now.

Don't add anything until your nitrates are zero. This is how you know the cycle is complete. It will take months so patience is vital.

The nitrates have held stable at 5-10, until the other day. But apparently my blenny died, so that's what the problem is. I test the water about once a week or so, and I had tested it 2 days (I think) before the spike. Up until then, the BTA was growing and gaining color, and very happy. I did a water change, added some more LR, and replaced the actinics. And that's when it all went south. Either my blenny just died or maybe I killed him with a rock, I don't know. I've never found anything left of him. Before that the BTA was bleached, but growing and acting fine.

[Noodle]

What all do you have in the 40G (livestock, #s of live rock/sand)?

And was that rock cured or uncured when you added it in?

My guess is it was probably a combination of factors that led up to nitrates skyrocketing.

[xcreonx]

A dead blenny in a mature tank is not a big problem as far as nitrates are concerned. The cleaners and bacteria should take care of it if you don't remove it. I had a 7inch square anthias die in my old old old 90g tank. The tank was mature, about 4 years old and the anthias didn't cause any issues even though it happened while I was in New Mexico for two weeks. All I found was an unidentifiable part of the poor fish.

I agree with Noodle, was the rock 'cured'? Where did you buy it? Die-off from ne rock can certainly cause another cycle, especially since your first cycle wasn't finished.

[KarenM]

What all do you have in the 40G (livestock, #s of live rock/sand)?And was that rock cured or uncured when you added it in?My guess is it was probably a combination of factors that led up to nitrates skyrocketing.

Well, let's see... I have the tang that I'm trying to rehome, a sixline wrasse,a coral beauty, and a false perc. I have about 43-45 pounds of rock, all bought locally already cured, and about 30lbs of sand. I have a derosa clam, a sea apple, a baseball sized bunch of frogspawn, the BTA, 6" rock covered in green star polyps, 4 quarter sized mushrooms, and 3 quarter sized rocks with zoo frags. My cleanup crew is a cleaner shrimp and a camel shrimp, about 4-5 small hermit crabs, 4 large turbo snails, 3-4 smaller snails, 2 conch snails. I have the "in tank mini-fuge" which is a shower caddy full of caulerpa and chaeto hanging on the back underneath the power filter.I have an emperor power filter and a Prism skimmer, 2 powerheads - one at the top back corner of the right side of tank blowing toward the back bottom left of the tank, and one at the top left front left side of the tank blowing toward the bottom right front of the tank. I have a 3rd powerhead, but it's not in the tank yet. Do you think I need more flow?I was using RO water from a local source until I heard it wasn't very good water. The last 2 changes I've used premixed IO water bought at River City and Aquatek.Everything was fine until about a week or so ago. The one thing that I just thought of was when I first set up the "mini-fuge", I put the chaeto AND the water in the bag in my tank because I wanted the pods. Could that small amount of water caused a problem?I appreciate your help.

A dead blenny in a mature tank is not a big problem as far as nitrates are concerned. The cleaners and bacteria should take care of it if you don't remove it. I had a 7inch square anthias die in my old old old 90g tank. The tank was mature, about 4 years old and the anthias didn't cause any issues even though it happened while I was in New Mexico for two weeks. All I found was an unidentifiable part of the poor fish.I agree with Noodle, was the rock 'cured'? Where did you buy it? Die-off from ne rock can certainly cause another cycle, especially since your first cycle wasn't finished.

I bought my first 10 or so pounds from an individual, but the rest has come from RCA or Aquatek. Those are the 2 stores I frequent the most. As far as I know, all of it was already cured, most with coraline algae on it. I haven' t noticed any "white spots". That indicates die-off, right? I appreciate all your help. I'm new at this and thought things were going well considering, then I hit this big bump. :(Another thing I just thought of - for a couple of weeks I was putting in a bunch of newly hatched brine shrimp every evening. There were tons of little shrimp - but all the animals were eating them. Even the sea apple was enjoying them.Anyway, then I didn't have time to hatch them out for about a week. That's when the nitrates spiked.

[Enigma13]

If your tank is 4 months old and your nitrates never reached zero then your tank has not yet cycled completely.

. . . .

Don't add anything until your nitrates are zero. This is how you know the cycle is complete. It will take months so patience is vital.

Nitrates do not need to reach 0 to indicate the completion of the cycle. Ammonia and nitrite must reach 0. Many tanks will never reach 0 on nitrates. This is simply because the nitrogen cycle ends with the production of nitrate. There is no step that eliminates the nitrate. The only way that nitrate can be removed from the tank is water change, macroalgae in a refugium, or a DSB. Even those methods do not assure that nitrate will always be 0. Nitrate control is the constant balance of operating a successful tank. It is one reason to keep a reasonable bioload, have an appropriately sized skimmer (these methods limit the amount of nutrients that have to go through the nitrogen cycle and ultimately end up as nitrate), do regular water changes, and have a healthy refugium. I think a nitrate level in the range of 0-10 is perfectly reasonable in a reef aquarium. I have run my 144 mixed in that range for close to two years with no nitrate based problems.

I agree that patience is vital in adding livestock to your tank. I have always followed a rule of trying to add only one fish at a time, and allowing at least a month for the fish to settle in and the system to balance before further additions. I think it can be very effective to come up with a stocking plan for your tank. It can help with the addition of certain species that are best added early or late due to their passivity or aggressiveness, respectively, but it also helps control the urge to create the masterpiece overnight only to have it all crash.

When our tanks are new it is the hardest to be patient because we want to put something in them to look at. That is just the time we need to be the most patient. Keep up with the water changes and the nitrates should get back to a normal range.

[KarenM]

Nitrates do not need to reach 0 to indicate the completion of the cycle. Ammonia and nitrite must reach 0. Many tanks will never reach 0 on nitrates. This is simply because the nitrogen cycle ends with the production of nitrate. There is no step that eliminates the nitrate. The only way that nitrate can be removed from the tank is water change, macroalgae in a refugium, or a DSB. Even those methods do not assure that nitrate will always be 0. Nitrate control is the constant balance of operating a successful tank. It is one reason to keep a reasonable bioload, have an appropriately sized skimmer (these methods limit the amount of nutrients that have to go through the nitrogen cycle and ultimately end up as nitrate), do regular water changes, and have a healthy refugium. I think a nitrate level in the range of 0-10 is perfectly reasonable in a reef aquarium. I have run my 144 mixed in that range for close to two years with no nitrate based problems.

I agree that patience is vital in adding livestock to your tank. I have always followed a rule of trying to add only one fish at a time, and allowing at least a month for the fish to settle in and the system to balance before further additions. I think it can be very effective to come up with a stocking plan for your tank. It can help with the addition of certain species that are best added early or late due to their passivity or aggressiveness, respectively, but it also helps control the urge to create the masterpiece overnight only to have it all crash.

When our tanks are new it is the hardest to be patient because we want to put something in them to look at. That is just the time we need to be the most patient. Keep up with the water changes and the nitrates should get back to a normal range.

Thanks for your advice! Like most other things, reefing seems to be a "depending on who you talk to" skill. I've had numerous people tell me that you can't cycle your tank with bio-spira and eventually everytying will die, or that my nitrates absolutely have to be at zero, or that it's normal to be between 5-10.

It's still between 5-10 as of last night (after the last water change on Tuesday) - which is apparently normal for MY tank. By now it's safe to say that I did loose my blenny, and I'm fighting the urge to overfeed so hopefully I can keep it somewhat stable. I won't be adding any more fish, we've reached our limit and are happy with what we have (as soon as I can rehome the tang).

I'm concentrating on adding the corals now. One thing (among the many) that I don't understand is the bio load/coral-anemone relationship. Common sense would tell me that if it takes food in, it needs to expel waste out. And if that's so, does an anemone increase the bio load? And if so, how can you have so many anemones & corals in very small tanks?

[xcreonx]

Alright, well I tried

Good luck

[KarenM]

Alright, well I tried

Good luck

And I really appreciate all your help. Being new to SW I need all the help I can get. Who knows what my tank will do? It's the cumulation of everyone's advice that really helps us newbies learn the skill.

[Cwesley]

Ok, I'll run get more water and more chaeto, as mine is almost gone. And I'll do a headcount and see what's missing. No bio balls, no sponges. And I just changed the filter media in the powerfilter last week.

What is chaeto? I'm kinda new to this.

[Headless_donkey]

Cheato is a type of macro algae. As it grows it will "eat" excess nutrients. It is popular because it grows quickly, grows in a ball, doesn't go sexual very often, and doesn't require a substrate. One of the biggest benefits is cheato/macro algae seems to use nitrates. Really, any macro algae will work, but cheato seems to be the most popular. If you are going to put the macro algae in the display tank there are tons of cooler looking varieties them cheato.(personal opinion done)