jharlan Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I was thinking about calling the manufacturer and asking about their specs. And, I think using one water source would give a good base, and I think making up a batch of water based on mfg specs would be plenty accurate enough fora hobbyist test! I think it would tell you what you want to know, which kit gets the most reliable results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted July 16, 2011 Author Share Posted July 16, 2011 Might be nice to get some Hanna checkers as another "test kit". Oh Mark....I see a MSWTV episode in the making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 I have hanna alkalinity and phosphate that can be used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wa1tx Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Hanna has Calcium checkers now. I just ordered one. https://www.hannachecker.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=215&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Hanna has Calcium checkers now. I just ordered one. https://www.hannachecker.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=215&category_id=36&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=29 very nice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Here's a link for a recipe to make a 10 dKH standard: http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/41663-diy-10-dkh-alkalinity-standard/ Marine Depot, and most likely other suppliers, has Calcium, pH, and Nitrate calibration fluids. If a refractometer is calibrated correctly with distilled water it seems to me it wouldn't need to be verified with a sample of known salinity. Besides using a standard of freshly mixed saltwater I'd still like to see water from a bunch of tanks checked as well. The results from the DFMAS tests suggests there may be processes in the tanks that might affect the tests. For example, the mean Alk for Pstleeb's tank was .59 dKH higher than AWT.com's results while the mean Alk for Davej was only .3. Why? The salinity was the same and as I understand the testing methodology they described there were multiple eyes verifying questionable interpretations of each test. It also seems to me if a sample of the freshly mixed saltwater is sent to AWT.com you'd have another standard to work with besides using calibration fluids or maybe send of a sample at the same time the tests are done and dispense with getting calibration fluids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted July 16, 2011 Share Posted July 16, 2011 Timfish, I've always read that distilled water was not an accurate fluid with which to calibrate a refractometer. Can you go into more detail on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Tim, There have been some questions raised with the way AWT runs their tests, by the chemistry gurus at RC. I'd be very wary of their results and would be hesitant in sending water to them. I believe there is another company that tests water whose results have not been called into question, but they charge considerably more. Unfortunately I can't remember the name. Edit: found some info http://www.reefcentr...6&highlight=awt Emily, http://reefkeeping.c...6/rhf/index.php and http://reefkeeping.c...2/rhf/index.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hey Robb, thanks for the info, but my name is Emily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted July 17, 2011 Author Share Posted July 17, 2011 Are you saying I got it wrong?!!! Thanks, and sorry. You can call me Clint, or summin, 1x, in a post at your discretion in payback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+etannert Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 HAH! No worries, I don't think we've ever met face to face! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Timfish, I've always read that distilled water was not an accurate fluid with which to calibrate a refractometer. Can you go into more detail on this? It's what the manufacturer of my refractometer says to use. I don't really see an issue of using RO/Di though. I also haven't bother to see if there's a difference between using distilled, RO, RO/DI or tapwater. In practice I doubt my refractometer more than once or twice a year. Seatests floater type hydrometer is what I use on a regular basis but for this test kit comparison a refractometer is probably a much better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) . . . There have been some questions raised with the way AWT runs their tests . . . Robb, I haven't checked the links you gave yet and to be honest hadn't ever heard of AWT until I read the link yesterday you posted. I did try to find them online and only found Aqua-Medic who I'm sure I have seen advertisements for but seen anything specific about one way or the other. The above discussion between Jestep, Jbharlan91 and Mindflux makes some good points about changes from DFMAS's tests to incorporate in doing another set of tests. Using a freshly made batch of saltwater and separate control samples along side water samples from different tanks would make it easier to see which kits were more accurate. I found it cumbersome scrolling down to the bottom to check the lab results then scrolling back up to compare to the tanks. It seems if all the samples were brought together and done by several people at the same time under the same lighting conditions might be better too. Edited July 17, 2011 by Timfish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbharlan91 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Here's my opinion: I think this is interesting and very "doable". We just need to get it together and decide the best way to proceed. I think we should do the following: Everyone that's interested - figure out what kind of information you want to get out of the testing - what parameters you want to check, etc. Get a list together of everything we want tested. Get another list together of all the test kits we have available to use. Once we know that, we can figure out what kind of control or multiple controls to use (pre made salt water, calibration fluids etc...), and get them ready. Then we just have to get together and run all the tests. They definitely all need to be done at the same time, under the same lighting conditions, and with a few people that can agree on any questionable results. Putting the data together would be easy, once we have it, we can report it any way we want just using excel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've got Lamont, Salifert and API for Alk, Elos phosphate, API calcium, pH and nitrate. I can also get water from systems maintaned with RO/DI, RO and tapwater. I'm wondering if it would be good to have all the water samples with identical salinities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+KimP Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I'd like to help out. I have pretty new red sea pro kits for po4, no3, ca, mag, and kh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbharlan91 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I don't think it would be necessary to have the water samples all have the same salinity. I do, however think it is absolutely necessary to have a control solution with known concentrations to use to compare the test kits. I think you either have to make control solutions, or just pick one water sample to be a control and establish it's concentration before you start the test comparisons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've got a Hagen/Nutrafin test kit that tests everything but Mg I think. I have a Salifert for Mg, but it's about 4 months from expiring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbharlan91 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've got a Hagen/Nutrafin test kit that tests everything but Mg I think. I have a Salifert for Mg, but it's about 4 months from expiring. Expiration dating can be debatable - 4 months out should be fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindflux Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I've got a Hagen/Nutrafin test kit that tests everything but Mg I think. I have a Salifert for Mg, but it's about 4 months from expiring. Expiration dating can be debatable - 4 months out should be fine! Stupid reagents expiring..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbharlan91 Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Here's a link for a recipe to make a 10 dKH standard: http://www.wamas.org...inity-standard/ Marine Depot, and most likely other suppliers, has Calcium, pH, and Nitrate calibration fluids. If a refractometer is calibrated correctly with distilled water it seems to me it wouldn't need to be verified with a sample of known salinity. Besides using a standard of freshly mixed saltwater I'd still like to see water from a bunch of tanks checked as well. The results from the DFMAS tests suggests there may be processes in the tanks that might affect the tests. For example, the mean Alk for Pstleeb's tank was .59 dKH higher than AWT.com's results while the mean Alk for Davej was only .3. Why? The salinity was the same and as I understand the testing methodology they described there were multiple eyes verifying questionable interpretations of each test. It also seems to me if a sample of the freshly mixed saltwater is sent to AWT.com you'd have another standard to work with besides using calibration fluids or maybe send of a sample at the same time the tests are done and dispense with getting calibration fluids. Timfish - I have all the equipment and supplies to do this, I could very easily make this solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted August 3, 2011 Share Posted August 3, 2011 I'm assuming we're still doing this? I've got Nitrate standards from Marine Depot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Anybody want to do this? I still have the Nitrate standards in my frig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 I'm down. (Nice thread resurrection too!) Maybe we should make a meeting out of this. I volunteer RichardL's place or Pmrogers's! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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