DIY LED lighting

[+Jakedoza]

ok.. so I have been wanting to upgrade the lighting on my tank and have thought about MH lighting.. I went to mcallahans house the other day and he showed me a LED setup that is out of this world, but pricey..

so.. I have done my research and this is what I have come up with, but I'm still crunching numbers.

I have found that CREE LEDs are pretty much the standard..

I ran across this kit that I may be able to piece together for even less money, (I know people) basically getting parts at cost.

Here is the kit

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-58/36-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

I'm still trying to figure out if this will be enough light or if I will need more.

I have a 135 gal tank, dimensions are 72"long x 18" front to back x 24" top to bottom.

Here is a similar DIY with a smaller kit from the same site.

http://www.3reef.com/forums/show-off-your-fish-tanks/coreys-90-gallon-build-87532-3.html#post1065163

I will be building mine straight into my canopy.. or maybe building a new canopy

thoughts or ideas?

[+olaggie01]

I think you'll need more than 36 leds on a tank that size, My 150g cube has 48 leds, which I feel is plenty but I left room to expand if necessary.

[Diablo]

You should look at stunner strips this is going to be my next investment in lighting. they are cheap effective an look good,

[+Jakedoza]

Those are neat, but one strip has 6w of output... the LEDs I'm looking at are 3w each... and wattage to $... the ones I'm looking at are much cheaper.

[DaJMasta]

Stunner strips are supplemental lighting, the reefbrite tube fixtures are the higher power versions from the same company and several of them plus some supplemental stunners make up larger fixtures. They're a good option, but more expensive than a DIY for sure.

If you're going to DIY though, go with double the LEDs. Put simply just 36 in a tank that size will give you heavy spotlighting, lots of color shadows, and less coverage than you expect. The lenses get your depth penetration better, but restrict the beam angle. There are people with 36 LEDs over a <30G cube tank for growing SPS.... sure they're not running lenses or at 1A drive current most of the time, but to get really even coverage and a lot of power, you need a lot of lamps. Using the dimmable drivers will also give you the option of driving your array at lower power levels, increasing the life span of the lamps significantly.

While rapidled seems to get good reviews, if you can find a driver supplier there are other sites that supply the lamps for cheaper. One I know of that operates in an odd way is http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/ . Basically they will get LEDs at wholesale prices and sell them to individuals in on the order. It works like a group buy where everyone orders individually and then it's shipped out on one date, but it's shipped to each person. The downside is that there isn't many items to choose from.

If you're going to build them you also MUST factor in the price of a heatsink. Unless you go with an active sink (fans, ventilation, etc), the heatsink will be a significant price. If you go with an active option, things like square aluminum pipe and similar building materials can be used depending on the design, so the heatsinks are much cheaper. If you hadn't seen, it is NOT safe to run any of these high powered LEDs without some kind of heatsink.

Finally if you actually like the spotlighting effect, there is always the par38 bulb option. Basically you get individual lamps at around 20W each that have passive heatsinks to cool them, a track lighting system, and you mount a whole bunch over the tank. With that much tank to cover, I don't see how you would do with less than 5 60 degree bulbs though, and even that wouldn't be enough coverage to be considered high lighting levels.

[+Jakedoza]

I don't really see how I would get much of a spotlight effect out of 18 3w LED's with 60degree lenses spaced a little over 3 inches apart.. and then to add the "actinic" blue LEDs spaced over the same area. Take a look at the 90 gal tank lit up with only 24 of the same LEDs without lenses might I add. I don't see much of a spotlight effect, but it may be difficult to see with the photos. You may be right, I may end up needing more, but I can always add more later... and right now I don't have much coral to speak of.

I do see your point about the heat sinks and I have already taken that into consideration. I plan on mounting the LEDs on an aluminum strip with a thermal compound.. much like you would attach a heat sink to a computer processor.

I'm not going to be able to get the LEDs from my guy like I wanted to.. so I may take a look at that site like you suggested. Thanks for that BTW.

[JasonJones]

3" spacing is pretty far apart and I would imagine you would see pretty heavy spotlighting with 60 degree optics. I have played with 20mm stars with 3 LEDS on them, so they are within 3-4 MM of each other. With 40 degree optics, even at 15" away you could still clearly see spotlighting issues. Granted the optics were tighter, but the spacing was much closer. I think the standard spacing of single LEDs is closer to 1.5 to 2" apart and you will still see some spotlighting at that with 80 degree optics in 15" tanks.

As far as the number you need- I was talking with multiple people about lighting a 20 long and 30 leds was the number most of the "LED experts" came up with. Chris is only using 48, but that is also because they are strategically placed only over his exact spots where rocks and corals are. I think he would need many more if he was lighting the whole tank.

Edited February 12, 2011 by JasonJones

[DaJMasta]

If you're not going with coral then that would be plenty, it's just to get photosynthesis happening you need a lot of light.

One point of clarification, you will get less spotlighting without optics, because the beam angle is wider. To find out how much spotlighting you'll get, let's consult math:

60 degree optics means the beam angle cross section at the middle is an equilateral triangle. That means the height off of your target relates to the diameter of the beam at the given distance in this ratio: sqrt(3) : 2, where sqrt(3) is the height component and 2 is the beam width component.

So with 3" LED spacing, just for the beams to meet each other (still spotlighting, but will look like a chain of circles) you need a 3 inch wide beam, or 1.5*sqrt(3)... just over 2.5 inches according to my calculator.

Ah but wait, 3" LED spacing means 6 inches between LEDs of the same color. So if you want meeting circles of alternating colors (so you get some overlap between colors, but each white or blue beam just touches the next in line), you need twice as much space, almost 5.2".

But again, this will look awful... you will get two overlapping chains of colored circles... so let's get the LED beams to the point that they more or less form a continuous line of red and blue combined. That means we'll need double the beam width to make it all stick together, which means double the height, just shy of 10.5". The largest portions of your beam are 12" wide, while the smallest portions are probably around 10". This isn't nearly enough to fully light the tank front to back, not factoring the bit of falloff you will get out of the end of the tank... so you can either raise it up more or you can add a second row.

But here's the kicker: the beam needs to look cohesive as soon as it hits your rock work or the spotlighting will be obvious... though with a little cloudiness in the water it would be obvious sooner. That means your now cohesive beam must reach the rock fully formed, so whatever value you get for your height is the minimum distance between your rockwork and your lighting system. If you're trying to adequately light the entire tank (18" of coverage on the small part of the beam), that value is approximately 20" with 24 LEDs spaced 3" apart. That means with rockwork within 8" of the surface (only 10" of rock work), you need a 12" deep hood (plus space for mounting/heatsinks). Now remember that the farther away the lights get from the system the lower the PAR for the corals.... yeah corals aren't happening in there.

So for a FOWLR without a super deep hood of those dimensions, 2 rows of 24 LEDs with 60 degree optics would be appropriate. Maybe one row will make do without too much spotlighting, but you're also getting much less light intensity at depth. If you want reasonable power output (high levels towards the top, moderate levels on the sandbed), you'd need to double that value - 96 CREE LEDs - as a starting point.

Metal halides get away with using reflectors to get better coverage despite being more or less point light sources, since LEDs are directional.... the best you can do is mess with the optics.

[+Jakedoza]

ok.. I think you are confused... but you do make sense. The photos on the link are not my setup... they are someone elses that I got an idea from... so everything you just talked about.. is not my setup.

I have a 135 with a hood that is approx 12" high that houses t5's at the moment.. thus the reason I wanted to use lenses on the LEDs.. I can get a different angle lens though if I need to.

Ill be using 18 white LEDs.. and in addition another 18 blue.. (Maybe more if this doesn't end up being enough) The whites will be about 3 inches apart from each other.. and the blues will be 3 inches from each other.. Each LED will in fact be 1.5" apart, but I will most likely put them in a zig zag patern under the canopy..

Thanks for the input

[Hamp]

I am pretty sure that you will need substantially more LEDs on a tank that size to grow coral.

[chrisp]

I'm thinking of doing an led setup for my new 40g breeder. I was thinking of using a kit from reefledlights.com. They suggest 1 led for every 12-15 sq. inches of surface area.

reefledlights faq

For my 40g thats 36x18 = 648sq inches so i would need 43-54 leds. I was thinking of getting the 48 led kit.

For a 135g thats 72x18 = 1296sq inches you would need 86-108 leds, maybe two 48 led kits.

[+olaggie01]

Jason makes a very valid point. The LEDs on my tank are used to spotlight certain parts of the tank, namely the rock where corals will be. I did not want to light the sand (at least directly), tank walls or overflow. Depending on how you have your tank setup will determine how many LEDs you'll need. Also, if you are going to add them to T5s, then you won't need nearly as many LEDs. I have mine running at 30% max and it is very bright and I have continued to bleach corals, even light loving SPS.

[DaJMasta]

As a supplement to T5s, then pretty much any number of LEDs can work, but from the sound of the original post and the idea of even spacing, I figured he was looking for even coverage. My point was that especially with optics, you're going to need at least two rows, without optics you'll be getting very low PAR at depth, and to light a tank evenly with only LEDs and get a reasonable amount of output, you will need quite a few.

If those point's don't apply, then I didn't understand his situation completely... but that's what I had thought...

[Eel Keeper]

Stunner strips are supplemental lighting, the reefbrite tube fixtures are the higher power versions from the same company and several of them plus some supplemental stunners make up larger fixtures. They're a good option, but more expensive than a DIY for sure.

If you're going to DIY though, go with double the LEDs. Put simply just 36 in a tank that size will give you heavy spotlighting, lots of color shadows, and less coverage than you expect. The lenses get your depth penetration better, but restrict the beam angle. There are people with 36 LEDs over a <30G cube tank for growing SPS.... sure they're not running lenses or at 1A drive current most of the time, but to get really even coverage and a lot of power, you need a lot of lamps. Using the dimmable drivers will also give you the option of driving your array at lower power levels, increasing the life span of the lamps significantly.

While rapidled seems to get good reviews, if you can find a driver supplier there are other sites that supply the lamps for cheaper. One I know of that operates in an odd way is http://www.ledgroupbuy.com/ . Basically they will get LEDs at wholesale prices and sell them to individuals in on the order. It works like a group buy where everyone orders individually and then it's shipped out on one date, but it's shipped to each person. The downside is that there isn't many items to choose from.

If you're going to build them you also MUST factor in the price of a heatsink. Unless you go with an active sink (fans, ventilation, etc), the heatsink will be a significant price. If you go with an active option, things like square aluminum pipe and similar building materials can be used depending on the design, so the heatsinks are much cheaper. If you hadn't seen, it is NOT safe to run any of these high powered LEDs without some kind of heatsink.

Finally if you actually like the spotlighting effect, there is always the par38 bulb option. Basically you get individual lamps at around 20W each that have passive heatsinks to cool them, a track lighting system, and you mount a whole bunch over the tank. With that much tank to cover, I don't see how you would do with less than 5 60 degree bulbs though, and even that wouldn't be enough coverage to be considered high lighting levels.

Could I run soft corals and LPS on six stunner strips on a 90 gal or would that not be enough light? What do you mean by supplemental?

[Robb in Austin]

I'm not sure I understand the whole LED thing, AT THIS POINT IN TIME. (I'm not yelling, just making a point.)

I get the economics of using them, but until they come down in price is it really feasible, even for DIY? Have there been enough studies done to say yes they can and will support our livestock?

[scottyk]

I talked with Mike at Rapid LED about how many LED's he thought I would need for my 200gal tank to grow SPS. He told me that he would go with 110 total. I layed out on grid paper how I would like to set it up. I came up with four 9 x 8.5 fixtures spaced evenly over the tank. From rapid LED that would be two 4.25 x 9 inch heatsinks back to back with 12 LED's on each x 4 (8 total heatsinks). I decided to go with 14 on each though. So that brings me to 116 total LED's on four fixtures plus four T-5's. Mike told me I would have no problems growing SPS with that light set-up. From everything I have read on LED's I've gathered that 24 cree LED's is about equivalent to a 250w MH. This is why I came up with the four separate fixtures with 28 LED's. I'm also going to add 12 moon lights right down the center of the tank. So far It's going to cost me about $1500-1600 for the entire light set-up. That's not bad considering the cost of MH fixtures and replacing MH bulbs every 9 to 12 months( if the LED's last as long as they said they do).

[labradorduck]

Has anyone bought from alibaba?