crendon2003 Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 help me decide-- --???? i just got a used coralife aqualight pro 48" and it has 2-150w 10k MH's, with one 96w 10k, and one 96 actinic. NOW question ?? should i leave it like that or get another actinic for the other side so there is two actinics?? Cause i was gonna switch the MHs to 14000k phoenixs:dribble: . I ordered a suspension kit to hang the fixture over the tank so ican start it off high and at low hours and gradualy extend the run time on it and lower it closer, so my corals dont get mad and throw a fit. Thank you for your input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lamont Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Congrats on the upgrade. I would get another actinic. i thought adding 2x65w actinics to my 2x250 Phoenix 14k MH's would be too blue but it turned out okay. Gkarshens also said that the corals need that supplemental lighting for good coloration. Keeping that 10k in there will throw off your spectrum. Also, RCA has two or three different suspension kit to choose from. i have my lights hanging also.(looks dang good) I wish i would have introduced my corals slowly to the new light. I went from PC's to MH's and lost my Torch, duncans, tri color acro. Good luck with the switch over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Congrats on the upgrade. I would get another actinic. i thought adding 2x65w actinics to my 2x250 Phoenix 14k MH's would be too blue but it turned out okay. Gkarshens also said that the corals need that supplemental lighting for good coloration. Keeping that 10k in there will throw off your spectrum. Also, RCA has two or three different suspension kit to choose from. i have my lights hanging also.(looks dang good) I wish i would have introduced my corals slowly to the new light. I went from PC's to MH's and lost my Torch, duncans, tri color acro. Good luck with the switch over. I think that I remember warning you that might happen I know because it happened to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lamont Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Congrats on the upgrade. I would get another actinic. i thought adding 2x65w actinics to my 2x250 Phoenix 14k MH's would be too blue but it turned out okay. Gkarshens also said that the corals need that supplemental lighting for good coloration. Keeping that 10k in there will throw off your spectrum. Also, RCA has two or three different suspension kit to choose from. i have my lights hanging also.(looks dang good) I wish i would have introduced my corals slowly to the new light. I went from PC's to MH's and lost my Torch, duncans, tri color acro. Good luck with the switch over. I think that I remember warning you that might happen I know because it happened to me Yeah, you and others warned me but I had most of my corals epoxied down and did not want to move them. I found out the hard way! That was a lot of light for a breeder tank though. Even if i wold have moved them down in the tank or reduced my photo period i think i still would have lost them. the tank was to shallow with that amount of light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Just giving you a hard time, I still occasionally misplace a coral and either kill or nearly kill it. I think that we have all done that before. You can get a light diffuser from home depot, they are used in commercial light fixtures (2' x 4'). Put this on top of your tank for a week or so, towards the end of the week take it off for a few hours per day to get them accimated, no need for placing the corals lower in the tank. You can also do this by leaving some other type of lighting on 12 hrs a day and turning the MH on for short lengths of time to get them used to it. The diffuser is the easiest and works the best, probably still need to limit the time the light is on for the first few days but after that you should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaJMasta Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 +1 on the dual actinic. The 14K phoenixes are great for color, and they seem to emphasize the reds more than the greens while still bringing out the blue coloration. They are by no means truly blue bulbs and some people say that various 20k rated bulbs aren't as blue as the 14k phoenixes. I think going with the extra actinic gives you better coverage with an actinic only lighting option and more pop on your greens. If you have a controller and are interested in simulating a day's light cycle better though, going one actinic and one 10k would give you a good sunrise/sunset lighting mode. Your acclimation method sounds good to me, I would probably up the hours before lowering the height, but I can't say that I have any evidence to back that up. Since it's 2x150s and not 250s, there's probably not a huge risk of bleaching everything out so long as the tank is at least 18" or so deep. If you have the option to move lower light corals then certainly do so though, and remember that each MH will make a sort of 'hot spot' of it's own as well. There's also the option of using the old bulbs (if they're still going and have 6+ months on them) as sort of MH acclimation bulbs, doing the start of the acclimation, then swapping one by one to the phoenixes - could be just another way to gradually up the lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crendon2003 Posted May 31, 2010 Author Share Posted May 31, 2010 u have any pics of ur lights hanging Irrisx or any one else? yeah my tank is 18" deep. how far should the light be from the tank?? i might just take a trip to RCA and see what they have. That light diffuser from home depot sounds good may check it out as well. What do yall think as a lighting schedule for acclimation of the tank to the lights?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 What do yall think as a lighting schedule for acclimation of the tank to the lights?? I'd go 1 hr the first day for 3 days, then 2hrs/day, adding another 2 hrs every week. If the corals are handling the new light - i.e. no bleaching, then you could add 2 hrs every 5 days. Note: you might have to re-arrange some of your corals as the MH lights will be a lot more intense than what you have right now. So corals that are up high might need to be moved lower down. You'll know if the coral needs to be moved if the coral starts to bleach, or the polyps don't come out (for LPS/SPS) or for zoas if the polyps never open up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 My lights are about 8" from the top of my tank, you need enough room to reach underneath the light in to the tank. Lighting is graded on scale, lowering the light by 3" will increase the lumens in the tank by 10% so you will want to have the lighting as close as possible when the acclimation period is over. Honestly the easiest way is to leave the 10k (change to actinic after accimation) and the actinic running 12 hrs and put the MH on one of those timers that has 15 min intervals. The way I would accimate... Start with 15 min every 2 hours with the diffuser on. Day 2 same thing Day 3 Increase to 15 min an hour Day 4 same thing Day 5 remove the diffuser and leave with still 15 min per hour Day 6 30 min an hour Day 7 45 min an hour By day 8 you should be all set You can of course go slower than than, just watch your corals for stress but I'm sure this lighting schedule will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hey hydro...everything I've read about MH bulbs is that once turned on, they should be on for at least 20min so that the bulb gets properly warmed up. The bulb makers say that if the bulb doesn't get properly warmed up (the full 20 min burn) then it can cause premature aging of the bulb. Have you seen this with your bulbs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Yes you are right but after 15 mins though the light is at full operating temperature especially if not being air cooled and it will not damage the bulb to turn off then. What actually damages the bulb the most is to not let it cool down for 15 mins before being refired. With plant lighting and aquarium lighting we replace the bulbs after 6 months to a year anyway so shortening the life of the bulb really isn't an issue. This type of damage to the bulb is more costly to a warehouse for example b/c they wait until the bulb actually fails to replace it. This information was straight from Ushio sales rep, I actually discussed it with them concerning the dimmable digital ballasts. Running HID lighting with a ballast dimmed will also shorten the life of the bulb but same situation, the bulb will be replaced far before this will be an issue. What I wanted to know from the bulb manufacturer will shortening the life of the bulb also degrade the color and I was told that it wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 What I wanted to know from the bulb manufacturer will shortening the life of the bulb also degrade the color and I was told that it wouldn't. So will the bulb lose PAR, or just increase the time until the bulb actually fails (won't fire) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 What I wanted to know from the bulb manufacturer will shortening the life of the bulb also degrade the color and I was told that it wouldn't. So will the bulb lose PAR, or just increase the time until the bulb actually fails (won't fire) Well since the intesity dims over time regardless if no damage was caused or not I would assume that it would lose intesity quicker with being damaged but I could be wrong. But if you are asking if turning the lamp off after 15 mins will quicken the degradation of the bulb I would have to say no. Now if you were to turn off and immediately and refiring the bulb many times then yes I think that it could degrade the lumen output before the year is up. When we harden plants (acclimate them) it is the standard in the industry to run the bulbs 15 min an hour for a few days and that is with 1000 watt bulbs, this is a very common practice b/c lighting timers are mostly setup in 15 min intervals. If this were not recommended for the bulbs we would know about it for sure, at least that is for plant lighting which spectrum and intesity are critical just like with reef tank lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hey hydro...everything I've read about MH bulbs is that once turned on, they should be on for at least 20min so that the bulb gets properly warmed up. The bulb makers say that if the bulb doesn't get properly warmed up (the full 20 min burn) then it can cause premature aging of the bulb. Have you seen this with your bulbs? Have you read somewhere that a bulb manufacturer recommended 20 minutes or is that something you heard through other reefers? What is interesting is that there are never instructions or warning included with bulbs. It seems that if there was anything that really effect the performance a warning would include this on the packaging, I wonder why the don't. Maybe b/c its all an urban legend! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Lamont Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Here are some pics of my light hanging. The fixture i'm using did not have any pre-drilled holes. I went to the hardware store and bought a matching drilled bit and did my thang. To adjust the height is very very simple. There is a button you push to let it up and down. Easy and safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Hey hydro...everything I've read about MH bulbs is that once turned on, they should be on for at least 20min so that the bulb gets properly warmed up. The bulb makers say that if the bulb doesn't get properly warmed up (the full 20 min burn) then it can cause premature aging of the bulb. Have you seen this with your bulbs? Have you read somewhere that a bulb manufacturer recommended 20 minutes or is that something you heard through other reefers? What is interesting is that there are never instructions or warning included with bulbs. It seems that if there was anything that really effect the performance a warning would include this on the packaging, I wonder why the don't. Maybe b/c its all an urban legend! I stand corrected, it was in the literature with the ballast maker, not the bulb maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 I stand corrected, it was in the literature with the ballast maker, not the bulb maker What kind of ballast? I never considered the ballast warm up time, I wonder if that is a suggestion just for a particular brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+mcallahan Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Lumatek e-ballast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted May 31, 2010 Share Posted May 31, 2010 Lumatek e-ballast Gotcha, I actually know those guys, I'm going to send an email asking them for an explanation of why that is recommended. I'm curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crendon2003 Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 THanks for all the info i will try the schedule that Mcallhan said and just the corals to the bottom one i switch the lighting, going to RCA to check out what they have. I also have a lil red slime problem but i think its my flow so im moving things around the tank and adding another powerhead, then will use the red slime remover. Man its upgrading month for me which has been a long time comming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted June 2, 2010 Share Posted June 2, 2010 If it matters to anyone I spoke with Lumatek and they said there is no issue with running the ballast in the lighting schedule I suggested, that there was no minimum run time. Personally with my years of experience with HID plant lighting is that its more stressful leaving the lights on all at once instead of spreading it out...in other words if you decided to turn the lights on for 2 hrs a day IMO it is better to turn them on 30 minutes at a time 4 x's a day. I have treated my corals as I would plants and have had no bad reactions from it. On the other hand Mark has more experience than I when it comes to aquariums and you should trust his advice, if he says to acclimate that way I'm sure it would be just fine. Good luck with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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