two ocellaris and a tomato?

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Oh the perils of letting husbands pick up fish.

My sweet hubby agreed to pick up a fish for me on the way home from work today. The guys (uh-hum, thanks for conspiring on this one John) didn't know which fish I wanted so my husband took both an ocellaris clown (the one I wanted) and a tomato clown (not one I wanted). He's on his way home with the fish now.

So, what do y'all think the odds are of two ocellaris clowns (I already have one, she's very mellow) and a single tomato clown getting along in a 125g tank? I want a pair of ocellaris, really had no intention of getting any other clowns. I've lost two small male ocellaris' to bad luck (first one was a mystery death after having him about 2 weeks, the second was stress from shipping lost him in less than 12 hours) and I'm getting very frustrated. All my other fish are fine and thriving, no losses of established tank members. It's just the new clown additions (I've added a couple other fish with no problems, well... until the fire fish decided to jump out of my open top tank but that's another issue all together. Lesson learned).

I have a fairly non-agressive tank so I'm a little worried about adding the tomato into the mix. Here are the fish I have now:

yellow tang (small)

ocellaris clown

2 green chromis

green mandarin

pacific pygmy angel (this is my current problem fish, she's mean. Chases my poor clown around. I've been debating getting rid of her but I'm dreading trying to catch her)

I eventually plan to add a blue tang and that's pretty much it.

Opinions? Should I find the tomato a new home or try it? I hate trying to get fish back out of the tank.

[+Lamont]

Oh the perils of letting husbands pick up fish.

My sweet hubby agreed to pick up a fish for me on the way home from work today. The guys (uh-hum, thanks for conspiring on this one John) didn't know which fish I wanted so my husband took both an ocellaris clown (the one I wanted) and a tomato clown (not one I wanted). He's on his way home with the fish now.

So, what do y'all think the odds are of two ocellaris clowns (I already have one, she's very mellow) and a single tomato clown getting along in a 125g tank? I want a pair of ocellaris, really had no intention of getting any other clowns. I've lost two small male ocellaris' to bad luck (first one was a mystery death after having him about 2 weeks, the second was stress from shipping lost him in less than 12 hours) and I'm getting very frustrated. All my other fish are fine and thriving, no losses of established tank members. It's just the new clown additions (I've added a couple other fish with no problems, well... until the fire fish decided to jump out of my open top tank but that's another issue all together. Lesson learned).

I have a fairly non-agressive tank so I'm a little worried about adding the tomato into the mix. Here are the fish I have now:

yellow tang (small)

ocellaris clown

2 green chromis

green mandarin

pacific pygmy angel (this is my current problem fish, she's mean. Chases my poor clown around. I've been debating getting rid of her but I'm dreading trying to catch her)

I eventually plan to add a blue tang and that's pretty much it.

Opinions? Should I find the tomato a new home or try it? I hate trying to get fish back out of the tank.

You should be fine. i had the same fish in a 40g breeder tank. i also had an anemone in there with them. one clown accepted the anemone and the rest stayed away. i consider clown the easiest to get out of the tank.. i put a net in the tank and then put brine shrimp in there and ended up catching 2 of the clowns at the same time.(within seconds) with a 125g i know you you will be ok. i have seen tanks with 4 different type of clowns in them. My tomato clown wasn't aggressive toward the other clowns but he would chase my chromis out of his vicinity.

[August]

I have a tank with 2 maroon clowns, 2 blk ocellaris clowns, and 1 true perc and they are all fine... so you should be ok

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Thanks so much guys! Now I just hope these two clowns will stay healthy and happy in my tank. Tim may have cursed me by calling my current ocellaris girl a black widow.

I better not tell my 9 year old about all the clowns getting along. He wants a maroon clown so bad and I keep telling him we can't get one because the clowns would fight. I have to agree with him though, the maroons sure are pretty.

[August]

Well goodluck Liz hope all turns out well

[Timfish]

Probably OK but it depends on the temperment of your clowns. Adding them all (mostly) at once is to your advantage but I've known Tomatoes and Maroons to get very aggressive and teritorial.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Well, I give up.

I drip acclimated the 2 clowns for an hour. At the tail end of acclimation the little ocellaris was swimming side ways. The tomato clown was fine. I put them in the tank and the ocellaris sank to the bottom and couldn't swim. I pulled him out and put him in my sump and he appears to be in the process of dying. The tomato clown seems ok so far. It fought with my big female ocellaris a bit, nothing too dramatic. I turned the tank lights out for the night and it seems to have gone to sleep behind a powerhead, still coming out and swimming in that corner of the tank a little.

What am I doing wrong with the clowns that I've lost every small ocellaris I've put in my tank? This makes 3!!

All my water parameters are good (and have been for a while, the tank is pretty stable). When I did a water change last week my params were:

nitrates:0

phosphates:0

pH- 8.3

kH- 8 (this is lower than normal, usually is at 9. I drip buffered Seachem buffer 1/2 the dose for the tank in my top off water to add a little buffering capacity to the tank. Haven't checked it since. I didn't want to do anything dramatic because 8 is still in range, thought I'd add a half dose slowly, check it, then dose the rest if needed)

calcium- 420

temp- 80 +/- a degree or so as the lights cycle off and on

It's about an hour and a half drive to my house for the fish, plus acclimation. Is this just too much stress for them? Could there be some toxin in the tank that is specifically affecting the clowns? I've added a mandarin (that was very beat up, wasn't sure he would live) and a fire fish in the same time period and both did just fine. My more sensitive inverts like my sea star and urchin are doing great.

Why am I loosing the clowns? GRRRR!!!!

[+mcallahan]

I'm actually surprised your tomato didn't knock out the other clowns immediately. As Timfish said, it will depend on the temperment of your clowns, but I would pegged the ocellaris for gone by now.

Are you getting different sized ocellaris clowns? You might be getting 2 females and the stronger one wins. A mismatch of size will help one become male and the other stay female.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

None of the ocellaris clowns have fought. The new ocellaris were all much smaller, about 1/2 the size of my female. There was no aggression at all. The first one she adored, they paired right up and she had him hosting in her hairy shrooms with her the same day I put him in the tank. He did great for a couple weeks then died.

The other two clowns didn't last long enough to do much, but there was no fighting at all.

My ocellaris is not impressed with the tomato clown, but she's bigger. They went to sleep in opposite corners of the tank. We'll see.what happens in the morning.

I'm really frustrated with the loss of the little clowns. I can't find any reason for it.

[Timfish]

Well, I give up.

I drip acclimated the 2 clowns for an hour. At the tail end of acclimation the little ocellaris was swimming side ways. The tomato clown was fine. I put them in the tank and the ocellaris sank to the bottom and couldn't swim. I pulled him out and put him in my sump and he appears to be in the process of dying. The tomato clown seems ok so far. It fought with my big female ocellaris a bit, nothing too dramatic. I turned the tank lights out for the night and it seems to have gone to sleep behind a powerhead, still coming out and swimming in that corner of the tank a little.

What am I doing wrong with the clowns that I've lost every small ocellaris I've put in my tank? This makes 3!!

All my water parameters are good (and have been for a while, the tank is pretty stable). When I did a water change last week my params were:

nitrates:0

phosphates:0

pH- 8.3

kH- 8 (this is lower than normal, usually is at 9. I drip buffered Seachem buffer 1/2 the dose for the tank in my top off water to add a little buffering capacity to the tank. Haven't checked it since. I didn't want to do anything dramatic because 8 is still in range, thought I'd add a half dose slowly, check it, then dose the rest if needed)

calcium- 420

temp- 80 +/- a degree or so as the lights cycle off and on

It's about an hour and a half drive to my house for the fish, plus acclimation. Is this just too much stress for them? Could there be some toxin in the tank that is specifically affecting the clowns? I've added a mandarin (that was very beat up, wasn't sure he would live) and a fire fish in the same time period and both did just fine. My more sensitive inverts like my sea star and urchin are doing great.

Why am I loosing the clowns? GRRRR!!!!

You're not doing anything wrong. The LFS you got them from isn't doing anything wrong either. Here's some things I learned to consider:

Just because a species has a reputation for being hardy doesn't mean every individual is.

(I don't like the reverse corrolary to this 'cause it can be used to justify getting fish we should not be getting .)

Judge your tank and your methodology by the overall health of ALL the individuals. If 95% are doing well that's how good you are. If 70% are doing well maybe you need some more studying. (If 100% are doing well I'd say you're lieing {won't admit you might be better than me }.)

We have no control over the fish before we get it and not as much as we want after we get it.

We are only seeing a very small sampling of an entire batch of fish. If out of the entire batch the wholesaler acquired only your three died you got a problem. But we're operating in the dark, we don't know how the other fish are doing. Maybe we can track down some other buyers but now we're relying on anecdotal evidence and hoping everyone is maintaining their tanks the same. If on the other hand 80% of the batch the wholesaler acquired and passed on died it's not your fault and it's not the fault of the LFS but we don't know, to reitterate we're operating in the dark. Judge yourself by your ENTIRE tank not individual failures.

Frustration with failure is a good thing, it motivates us to find answers!

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

Thank you for taking the time to write all that out Tim. I think logically I know, but right now my frustration level is getting the best of my logic.

Its very frustrating to have two fish come from one tank and to loose the one I really want. That said, after seeing how horribly aggressive the tomato clown is I've been wondering how stressed the little clown I lost was before I even got it.

Like you said, the majority of my fish are fine and if I throw in my inverts my overall losses are minimal.

Thank you again for your thoughtful posts, this last was just one of many. I truly enjoy reading you perspective on things.