fjr_wertheimber

Thanks for the heads up, Steven! And thanks, Bige, we're pretty thrilled with how it's turning out.

And now with the first coats of paint and the LED light fixture... Interesting to compare it to the original rendering:

So, it might not be much (yet) but it's a start. We cleaned and primed the room today (this pic was after the first coat of Kilz primer). Tomorrow we'll paint the room with Valspar Kitchen and Bath, then on Monday I've got a couple of electricians coming out to give me quotes on doing the electrical. I've already installed the dimmer switch for the room, and the track lighting (with LED bulbs) is waiting in the garage for when the painting is done.

Yeah, it really was good talking to you earlier, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting out there and checking out your tank in person. And yeah, that was a bummer that he'd moved. Did you ever find out why? I tried calling him back again since he never called back with any recommendations, but just got his voicemail.

Yeah, that'd be great if you could drop me a line with his cell number. I generally prefer to use a guy if someone else I know has used them before and can recommend them. Thanks!

No worries, man, I really do appreciate all your help and information, and I really hope you don't think I was just blowing off your suggestions and help. As far as the electric, that's pretty much the plan, just a matter of finding out how much it's going to cost. And hey, whenever I can get out there to check out your tank I'll tell you some of the good ones. Well, the good unclassified ones, at least... LOL

Like I said, I really do appreciate all the help, pointers, and tips, and recommendations. I'll definitely keep you all in the loop, and if you see anything else you think I should change, please pipe on up. And hey, if I'm wrong on the pumps, then I hereby give you full permission to start a thread titled "I told you so..." LOL :-)

Thanks, man! Had a great time, absolutely gorgeous setup you've got there! I'll definitely have to bring Wendy over to check it out some time. Maybe next time I come over I'll bring some cigars...

Okay, first off, I'm not dismissing anyone's experience out of hand. Hydro Innovations "pump issues", for example, aren't related to his pump size IMHO, as much as it is the height of his overflows as related to the height of his desired water level vs. the amount of return speed-related water height over the overflow. By ensuring the level of my overflows is at minimum the desired height of my water level, if I desired I could put a single pump at 100gph and still accomplish the desired effect, that is, that the return pump takes water from the sump and flows it to the display tank, while allowing tank water to flow down the overflow and into the sump all the while maintaining the minimum water level in the main tank that I desire. I think that too often we, as reefers, make decisions based on "well, this isn't working how I want it to, so it's wrong and must be fixed by throwing money/additional equipment/etc. at it to fix it", when if the design had been properly vetted and planned prior to execution (which is why I opened up the design to discussion here in the first place) the issue at hand could have been mitigated, avoided, or fixed prior to the actual implementation. One point brought up in this thread (and I thank you guys for that) that I have addressed is the power needs of the tank. In looking at the wiring in the house, that room is currently wired on it's own with two 20 amp circuits with 12/3, which means that wire has the safe capacity that I can actually run two additional 20 amp circuits (for a total of 4 20 amp circuits) off those runs without having to pull addition runs of fresh wire from the main circuit breaker. So, having verified that, I'm going to have some electricians come out this weekend give me some quotes so we can have that addressed ASAP prior to painting the walls. Oh, and as far as power needs for the heaters, I'd highly recommend Hydro, that you look into using two Socket Expansion 120V rather than another power bar, and that you split your heating needs over two heaters plugged into each SE120V rather than just one. That way if one sticks open, if you size them right, you're not going to fry all your fish by relying on a single piece of equipment capable of heating the entire tank, and by having each on a separate circuit and not relying on a Power Bar 4 or 8 to supply all your high amperage needs. I completely understand and appreciate Hydro Innovations efforts to help me "not make any mistakes", but in that vein I think that he has assumed that issues dealt with in his build are implicit in all larger builds, and that's where I disagree. In the statement "when the tank pump shuts off it comes within 2" of overflowing it" it shows that an implication of having such large turnover related to the speed over your tank circulation to/from the sump is causing a large amount of water to be in effect juggled between the actual physical level of the overflow and within the return pipes to the extent that it almost overwhelms the capacity of the sump when it is allowed to drain back into the sump. Once again, by designing the tank with an overflow height that minimizes that requirement, by lowering the turnover rate of the return pumps, one can reduce/mitigate and/or remove a large majority of that water that is constantly in a state of stasis, if you will, neither truly in the level of the designed size of the tank, nor in the designed usable capacity of the sump. As far as "it will ruin your hardwood", considering the flooring we'll be using is a hardwood laminate, pressure treated and sealed and warranted for 20 years in wet/damp bathroom/kitchen environments, I'm not even remotely concerned. There will be a cutout for the tank itself, so the tank stand will be resting directly on the concrete slab, and there will be a PVC tray beneath the sump, QT tanks, and top off jugs, so I'm not overly concerned about spills, either. As for issues of flow, when Hydro Innovations says "this is a good example of advice AJ is not taking", what are you basing your assumption that the advice merits taking and is worth castigation for not taking it? Have you done a liquid flow analysis on the tank design, taking into account the effect of fluid dynamics over irregular surfaces, and laminar flow within constrained space using incompressible flows? Or are you basing it on "I didn't work on my tank, so it won't work on his"? How did you have your Vortech's aligned on your tank, did you do the usual "put 'em on the back wall and expect them to make magic throughout the tank when they bounced off the front glass", or did you put them on the long ends of that exceedingly long tank and then were amazed that those MP40s didn't create a massive wave over that long distance? There's a reason why the tank flow design criteria calls for 2 MP60s on the long axis of the shallower portion of the tank: the laminar flow created by the broader stream and increased overall water movement, especially as it flows over/around small rock formations on the way to the dropoff will create more random flow in the upper portion of the tank. The undertow of the the two MP40s on the lower portion will serve to pull up detritus and foreign matter and keep it suspended in the water column rather than allowing it to settle, as well as allowing a lower flow, less turbulent environment similar to that of a sheltered overhang along a natural reef. And, if I find that I'm not happy with the flow in the tank (as laminar flow analysis is only so accurate when considering natural growths of semi-random formation) it's quite a simple matter to add additional Vortechs and/or other devices as need be until I'm happy with the water movement I'm getting. I'm not married to any one design, I'm very much of the mind that "design to the best of your ability using the best information available, test the setup, and adjust/replace/enhance as needed" whether I'm taking server design, sniper rifle design, or fish tank design (yes, all three of which I've worked on before). So, thank you again, everyone (especially Hydro Innovations) for all the pointers, suggestion, and recommendations. I'm looking forward to watching the build develop (albeit far to slowly for my taste up to this point, mainly do to time constraints from, well, life... LOL), and will definitely take the group along for the journey!

To answer Hydro Innovations questions: I did all the drawings on SketchUp 8, then rendered in V-ray. I'm running two pumps, Water Blaster 5000s. I'm not a huge fan of massive turnover on the return, prefer to let my in-tank pumps/powerheads handle the water movement in the display, to allow more contact time with the fuge/skimmer in the sump. I'm well aware of heat exchange as well as the efficacy of evaporative cooling, and intend to try evaporative cooling if need be, and if it doesn't meet the tanks needs, then I'll plumb a chiller inline. I'm not currently planning on running a UV, most hobbyists who run UVs run ones too vastly undersized to actually make a difference (not NEARLY enough contact time to actually make a dent on the flora and fauna you're trying to kill). If you get a chance, check out three of the most recent papers from the Georgia Aquarium, from Penn State, and from the NOAA on the efficacy of UV sterilization on closed circuit hydro environments, you'll be surprised at the incredibly low efficacy of those systems. The powerstrips from the Apex will be mounted on the underside of the marine-grade ply, so any condensation drips away from the plugs, rather than into them. I'll be using 2 5 gallon jugs for auto-topoff, powered by an Aqualifter. I wish I could mount a 25 gallon tank above the tank for gravity fed topoff, but I just don't have the space for it. As for electricity, I already have a dedicated circuit run to that room. Wish I could run an additional circuit, but the house is a rental. They're fine with us painting and putting in the hardwood, but not too keen on additional electrical circuits.

As you said, McJudge, "our tanks are our centerpieces," and I feel by orienting it this way in the entry of the house it becomes a centerpiece of the entire home, and not just one room.

We thought about doing it as a peninsula in the room, but decided instead to do it as a peninsula to the house if you will, so that the long view is immediately in sight anytime you enter or go down that hallway (and with three kids, that's often). Also, it acts as a wall to separate our little "no kids, quiet area" from the rest of the house. I don't want the seahorses plumbed in with the rest of the system because their tank will run cooler than the reef tank. Oh, and trust. me when I say there's MORE than enough room for a Ca reactor, etc. in that sump. I just didn't feel like modeling one. LOL

A few new renders of the fish room, we finally decided on a paint scheme and flooring. The photos are all ones I took on our dive trip to the Great Barrier Reef. Some of the renders don't have the main tank so you can see the rest of the room better. Gotta love V-ray!

Dude, that setup looks fantastic. I think it's funny how much of your setup (equipment-wise) is almost identical to the stuff I'm leaning towards. (That, and it's nice to see I'm not the only Sketchup-using reefer... LOL) If you're ever free sometime I'd love to check out that setup and pick your brain a bit...

Okay, so just a few updates. I put together a mockup of the new tank will go into, so we can figure out furniture, etc. Also, Wendy wanted a nano tank for some h. barbouri seahorses, so I mocked up a tank for her from the scrap cut to make the L-shaped pieces for the main tank. It will definitely be the stoutest nano EVER, as it's 24"l x 16"h x 12"w, made out of 3/4" low-iron glass. LOL It'll have a sump underneath with a WAY oversized skimmer for the tank size, to accommodate the nastiness that seahorse tanks create. You'll pardon me if the models aren't exact, but I just wanted to make sure I was giving myself enough room for the Alpha 300 Kone skimmer, for the two HY5000 returns, and also to check the placement of the four Vortech pumps (2x MP40wES, 2x MP60wES). The two 40 gallon tanks up front are going to be quarantine tanks, the water jugs are for top-off water (and will be pulled from with an auto-topoff turning on/off an Aqualifter pump. The large portion of the sump towards the front will be a refugium/frag area. Oh, and I added 2" tabs with holes for attaching the wood facing on the stand. Anyone see anything I'm missing, something I could improve or you think I should change?

Very cool, man, congrats on the new tank. Yeah, I saw Troylee's build back when I first started designing this one, thanks!

It's gonna be a while, olaggie01, because I still have to get the stand made, the glass delivered (and then CNC waterjet cut). What are you upgrading to?

Yup, that's the same stuff. It's also the same stuff that a lot of commercial and large public aquariums use for "rockwork" in their tanks. http://www.polygem.com (As always, not affiliated in any way, your mileage may vary, yada yada yada.)

Thanks, Aaarrrggg! So a bit more info: The rock structure will be live rock with a PVC substructure, covered in pond foam and formed Polygem Zoopoxy #307 LITE and custom latex press molds to give the appearance of actual live rock. I'm going to have the pieces cut on a CNC waterjet to ensure accuracy of ±.003" and perfectly leveled cuts on each axis.

Hey, does anyone have Acropoorer's contact info? I noticed that it won't let me send him a message on here, and I had some DIY silicone questions for him...

Count me in!

Okay, so here's the basic plan for the aquascaping. It's obviously not quite how I plan to have it look, but then SketchUp isn't really setup well for organic shapes, but at least it'll give you a basic idea of the overall feel.

LOL Roll Tide Reef, she's supportive, but hey, she still calls me obsessed, too, so it's kind of a wash. LOL At least she's supportive of my obsession! LOL Yeah, I know what you mean about that setup at the Georgia Aquarium, that place is just sick! Thanks for the all compliments, guys. I think it's gonna be pretty awesome. Olaggie, nope, it's not Troylee's tank, his was only viewable from one side; that tank is an aquarist from the Netherlands. Both of those tanks (as well as the one from Bello on RC) are all pretty awesome.

Okay, very cool. I'll definitely have to make my way out there so we can talk.

Thanks, everyone. Yeah, Hydro Innovations, I just read your build thread before I posted the start of this thread. Good looking setup, man. Trust me when I say I'm going into this well aware of the time and money implications of a tank of this size. My time off (what little it was) over my last deployment was mostly spent surfing and reading everything I could get my hands on, and I've actually got a spreadsheet with each and every cost, down to the bulkheads and PVC, plus a huge amount of "wiggle room" for changes in costs due to inflation, fuel costs, etc. I'm not worried about the Starphire, I had a Starphire tank before and absolutely loved it. Like all glass it will scratch if you're not careful, but it's a helluva lot harder to mess up than acrylic, IMHO. I'd love to come out and see your setup, man. What's your schedule like? As far as flow, I've been really impressed with what I've seen of the MP60s, but if need be I'll supplement them. I'm just not a fan of the back-and-forth movement of the waveboxes, I mean, they do a GREAT job of creating water movement, but I don't really care for the movement they give (if that makes sense). Also, I'm not too worried about having room under the tank for what I want under there; I know I'll have room for a good sized sump, refugium, small frag growout tank, a couple of QT tanks, and some dosers, plus room for my controller, with room to spare. I'm not concerned about a chiller or heat exchanger, with LEDs I shouldn't be putting nearly as much heat into the tank as with MH. My saltwater making station and RODI unit will be out in the garage, with a hose from there into the house for delivery of the new water (much easier than hefting 5 gallon jugs or trashcans on wheels). All in all, I think it should all work out pretty nicely.