fjr_wertheimber

After getting a bunch of quotes from various electricians I finally went with Jeff Gray from Grayzer Electric LLC. Jeff and his apprentice just left here, and I've got to say I'm absolutely THRILLED with the quality of their work, their awesome price, and the speed with which it was all done. In less than an hour they had run the conduit outside, run the new circuits through the ceiling, into the wall, and installed the boxes and faceplates (I'm WAY oversimplifying all they had to do in order to get the circuits run). So, I now have all the electrical I should need for the tank (three dedicated 20amp circuits), woohoo! One step closer! (Oh, and thanks Hydro for suggesting Putnam, I called him to get a quote from him, and will definitely keep him in mind if Jeff is ever too busy or unable to do a job for me.)

Dude, this is epic! Definitely storing that PDF in my "stuff to build for my tank" file... After, well, the tank itself, that is...

Thanks, Gig'em.

Hope everyone is enjoying the planning as much as I am... Now to get back to the building! Speaking of which, the room is almost done, we're doing our paint touchups tomorrow, getting some drapes for the room, the electrician is coming on Wednesday, and the custom floor should be in sometime in the next couple of weeks! Woohoo!

A few folks have asked why I'm using so many LEDs, rather than pivoting a fixture of having it move via a stepping motor. Actually, the original plan was to either pivot the fixture, or move it using a stepping motor or hydraulic actuator throughout the day, but the issues I found in those plans was a) access to the tank without having to basically disassemble that whole assembly b) angles available without a HUGE canopy c) one more level of mechanical complication (I hate having to rely on motors unless absolutely necessary. I'm definitely a solid-state kinda guy.) and d) I like the flexibility of that many LED circuits, i.e.- if it's 2pm and the lights are on the "west" side of the tank and I choose to have a "lightning storm", I can dim the "west" side and have the lightning flashes come from either the "east", "west", or a combination of the both. And yes, trust me, the color balance will change throughout the day, with more of that afternoon "golden light" that photographers love so much showing up in the early morning and late afternoon.

Thanks, cMidd. I certainly hope so! LOL Really, the realization of the whole dream of the mega-über-tank is thanks to Wendy. She's the accountant in the family (literally, she used to do legal accounting) and she gave me the go-ahead (and $) to make it all happen. Most women barely tolerate their guy's fish tank; mine finances it! LOL Yup, you can all start hating me now...

Thanks, Woods! pbnj, wait'll you see the wiring diagram I'm working on... YIKES... LOL For those of you asking what I mean by curving the LEDs, here's what I'm referring to. The LEDs will be mounted on strips (as denoted by the spreadsheet diagram above) that are on a curve over the tank, so that all the LEDs are equidistant from the center of the tank. This way, as the LEDs following their ramp up/ramp down schedule, the light will appear to come from a light source (i.e.- the sun) passing overhead throughout the course of the day, rather than from a fixed position. Or, at least that's the plan. LOL

Yeah, Jason, the spread is the same deep to shallow, but you'll notice that the degree of the optics changes with the changing depth, not only for further penetration, but to increase spread of the light and mitigate spotlighting or color banding. You'll also notice that the arrangement of LEDs ensures the same RB, B, W arrangement whether top to bottom or diagonally, this should help mitigate color banding as well by ensuring equal distribution of colors. Having said that, I may take a look at perhaps building them into 3-LED pods, kind of similar to the setup the AI and EcoTech lights are setup... We'll see. It's going to be a while before I get a chance to start soldering, so (as with all things on a design this big and involved) it's subject to change. Hell, look at the flooring; we've changed our choices on that about 5 times in the past few days... LOL

Okay, so here's the planned setup of the LED lighting for the tank. It will be built in a curve over the tank so as to mimic the natural change of lighting angles throughout the day, and allow gradual ramping up/down across the overall fixture for more gradual lighting changes. Well, that's the plan, at least. LOL The layout: The breakdown:

Thanks for the heads up, Aaarrrggg. :-) I'll definitely keep you posted if we decide to add that to the system...

Thanks, Aaarrrggg... :-) I thought about doing an auto water changer, but I'm a big fan of vacuuming up the sand bed, plus the problem is the tank isn't situated in such a place that I could really make it happen without serious feats of engineering (read: $$$$). Speaking of which, I've gotten a bunch of quotes on the electrical work, and so far I'm actually looking at about a quarter of what I projected for the cost of bringing in two fresh 20 amp circuits into the room. So, looks like I'll have three dedicated 20 amp circuits into the fish room (not counting the separate 15 amp circuit the LED room spotlights are on). Oh, and speaking of improvements in the room, looks like rather than doing the industrial laminated flooring, we'll actually be going with a pressed tile that looks like oak, that way it's impervious to water in case of a spill. The other stuff is fine, I found, if you spill on it directly, but if it gets below the floor surface to the bottom layer of the laminate then it just dissolves, which I think we can all agree is something bad to happen to your flooring. LOL

Thanks for the heads up, Steven! And thanks, Bige, we're pretty thrilled with how it's turning out.

And now with the first coats of paint and the LED light fixture... Interesting to compare it to the original rendering:

So, it might not be much (yet) but it's a start. We cleaned and primed the room today (this pic was after the first coat of Kilz primer). Tomorrow we'll paint the room with Valspar Kitchen and Bath, then on Monday I've got a couple of electricians coming out to give me quotes on doing the electrical. I've already installed the dimmer switch for the room, and the track lighting (with LED bulbs) is waiting in the garage for when the painting is done.

Yeah, it really was good talking to you earlier, and I'm definitely looking forward to getting out there and checking out your tank in person. And yeah, that was a bummer that he'd moved. Did you ever find out why? I tried calling him back again since he never called back with any recommendations, but just got his voicemail.

Yeah, that'd be great if you could drop me a line with his cell number. I generally prefer to use a guy if someone else I know has used them before and can recommend them. Thanks!

No worries, man, I really do appreciate all your help and information, and I really hope you don't think I was just blowing off your suggestions and help. As far as the electric, that's pretty much the plan, just a matter of finding out how much it's going to cost. And hey, whenever I can get out there to check out your tank I'll tell you some of the good ones. Well, the good unclassified ones, at least... LOL

Like I said, I really do appreciate all the help, pointers, and tips, and recommendations. I'll definitely keep you all in the loop, and if you see anything else you think I should change, please pipe on up. And hey, if I'm wrong on the pumps, then I hereby give you full permission to start a thread titled "I told you so..." LOL :-)

Thanks, man! Had a great time, absolutely gorgeous setup you've got there! I'll definitely have to bring Wendy over to check it out some time. Maybe next time I come over I'll bring some cigars...

Okay, first off, I'm not dismissing anyone's experience out of hand. Hydro Innovations "pump issues", for example, aren't related to his pump size IMHO, as much as it is the height of his overflows as related to the height of his desired water level vs. the amount of return speed-related water height over the overflow. By ensuring the level of my overflows is at minimum the desired height of my water level, if I desired I could put a single pump at 100gph and still accomplish the desired effect, that is, that the return pump takes water from the sump and flows it to the display tank, while allowing tank water to flow down the overflow and into the sump all the while maintaining the minimum water level in the main tank that I desire. I think that too often we, as reefers, make decisions based on "well, this isn't working how I want it to, so it's wrong and must be fixed by throwing money/additional equipment/etc. at it to fix it", when if the design had been properly vetted and planned prior to execution (which is why I opened up the design to discussion here in the first place) the issue at hand could have been mitigated, avoided, or fixed prior to the actual implementation. One point brought up in this thread (and I thank you guys for that) that I have addressed is the power needs of the tank. In looking at the wiring in the house, that room is currently wired on it's own with two 20 amp circuits with 12/3, which means that wire has the safe capacity that I can actually run two additional 20 amp circuits (for a total of 4 20 amp circuits) off those runs without having to pull addition runs of fresh wire from the main circuit breaker. So, having verified that, I'm going to have some electricians come out this weekend give me some quotes so we can have that addressed ASAP prior to painting the walls. Oh, and as far as power needs for the heaters, I'd highly recommend Hydro, that you look into using two Socket Expansion 120V rather than another power bar, and that you split your heating needs over two heaters plugged into each SE120V rather than just one. That way if one sticks open, if you size them right, you're not going to fry all your fish by relying on a single piece of equipment capable of heating the entire tank, and by having each on a separate circuit and not relying on a Power Bar 4 or 8 to supply all your high amperage needs. I completely understand and appreciate Hydro Innovations efforts to help me "not make any mistakes", but in that vein I think that he has assumed that issues dealt with in his build are implicit in all larger builds, and that's where I disagree. In the statement "when the tank pump shuts off it comes within 2" of overflowing it" it shows that an implication of having such large turnover related to the speed over your tank circulation to/from the sump is causing a large amount of water to be in effect juggled between the actual physical level of the overflow and within the return pipes to the extent that it almost overwhelms the capacity of the sump when it is allowed to drain back into the sump. Once again, by designing the tank with an overflow height that minimizes that requirement, by lowering the turnover rate of the return pumps, one can reduce/mitigate and/or remove a large majority of that water that is constantly in a state of stasis, if you will, neither truly in the level of the designed size of the tank, nor in the designed usable capacity of the sump. As far as "it will ruin your hardwood", considering the flooring we'll be using is a hardwood laminate, pressure treated and sealed and warranted for 20 years in wet/damp bathroom/kitchen environments, I'm not even remotely concerned. There will be a cutout for the tank itself, so the tank stand will be resting directly on the concrete slab, and there will be a PVC tray beneath the sump, QT tanks, and top off jugs, so I'm not overly concerned about spills, either. As for issues of flow, when Hydro Innovations says "this is a good example of advice AJ is not taking", what are you basing your assumption that the advice merits taking and is worth castigation for not taking it? Have you done a liquid flow analysis on the tank design, taking into account the effect of fluid dynamics over irregular surfaces, and laminar flow within constrained space using incompressible flows? Or are you basing it on "I didn't work on my tank, so it won't work on his"? How did you have your Vortech's aligned on your tank, did you do the usual "put 'em on the back wall and expect them to make magic throughout the tank when they bounced off the front glass", or did you put them on the long ends of that exceedingly long tank and then were amazed that those MP40s didn't create a massive wave over that long distance? There's a reason why the tank flow design criteria calls for 2 MP60s on the long axis of the shallower portion of the tank: the laminar flow created by the broader stream and increased overall water movement, especially as it flows over/around small rock formations on the way to the dropoff will create more random flow in the upper portion of the tank. The undertow of the the two MP40s on the lower portion will serve to pull up detritus and foreign matter and keep it suspended in the water column rather than allowing it to settle, as well as allowing a lower flow, less turbulent environment similar to that of a sheltered overhang along a natural reef. And, if I find that I'm not happy with the flow in the tank (as laminar flow analysis is only so accurate when considering natural growths of semi-random formation) it's quite a simple matter to add additional Vortechs and/or other devices as need be until I'm happy with the water movement I'm getting. I'm not married to any one design, I'm very much of the mind that "design to the best of your ability using the best information available, test the setup, and adjust/replace/enhance as needed" whether I'm taking server design, sniper rifle design, or fish tank design (yes, all three of which I've worked on before). So, thank you again, everyone (especially Hydro Innovations) for all the pointers, suggestion, and recommendations. I'm looking forward to watching the build develop (albeit far to slowly for my taste up to this point, mainly do to time constraints from, well, life... LOL), and will definitely take the group along for the journey!

To answer Hydro Innovations questions: I did all the drawings on SketchUp 8, then rendered in V-ray. I'm running two pumps, Water Blaster 5000s. I'm not a huge fan of massive turnover on the return, prefer to let my in-tank pumps/powerheads handle the water movement in the display, to allow more contact time with the fuge/skimmer in the sump. I'm well aware of heat exchange as well as the efficacy of evaporative cooling, and intend to try evaporative cooling if need be, and if it doesn't meet the tanks needs, then I'll plumb a chiller inline. I'm not currently planning on running a UV, most hobbyists who run UVs run ones too vastly undersized to actually make a difference (not NEARLY enough contact time to actually make a dent on the flora and fauna you're trying to kill). If you get a chance, check out three of the most recent papers from the Georgia Aquarium, from Penn State, and from the NOAA on the efficacy of UV sterilization on closed circuit hydro environments, you'll be surprised at the incredibly low efficacy of those systems. The powerstrips from the Apex will be mounted on the underside of the marine-grade ply, so any condensation drips away from the plugs, rather than into them. I'll be using 2 5 gallon jugs for auto-topoff, powered by an Aqualifter. I wish I could mount a 25 gallon tank above the tank for gravity fed topoff, but I just don't have the space for it. As for electricity, I already have a dedicated circuit run to that room. Wish I could run an additional circuit, but the house is a rental. They're fine with us painting and putting in the hardwood, but not too keen on additional electrical circuits.

As you said, McJudge, "our tanks are our centerpieces," and I feel by orienting it this way in the entry of the house it becomes a centerpiece of the entire home, and not just one room.

We thought about doing it as a peninsula in the room, but decided instead to do it as a peninsula to the house if you will, so that the long view is immediately in sight anytime you enter or go down that hallway (and with three kids, that's often). Also, it acts as a wall to separate our little "no kids, quiet area" from the rest of the house. I don't want the seahorses plumbed in with the rest of the system because their tank will run cooler than the reef tank. Oh, and trust. me when I say there's MORE than enough room for a Ca reactor, etc. in that sump. I just didn't feel like modeling one. LOL

A few new renders of the fish room, we finally decided on a paint scheme and flooring. The photos are all ones I took on our dive trip to the Great Barrier Reef. Some of the renders don't have the main tank so you can see the rest of the room better. Gotta love V-ray!

Okay, so just a few updates. I put together a mockup of the new tank will go into, so we can figure out furniture, etc. Also, Wendy wanted a nano tank for some h. barbouri seahorses, so I mocked up a tank for her from the scrap cut to make the L-shaped pieces for the main tank. It will definitely be the stoutest nano EVER, as it's 24"l x 16"h x 12"w, made out of 3/4" low-iron glass. LOL It'll have a sump underneath with a WAY oversized skimmer for the tank size, to accommodate the nastiness that seahorse tanks create. You'll pardon me if the models aren't exact, but I just wanted to make sure I was giving myself enough room for the Alpha 300 Kone skimmer, for the two HY5000 returns, and also to check the placement of the four Vortech pumps (2x MP40wES, 2x MP60wES). The two 40 gallon tanks up front are going to be quarantine tanks, the water jugs are for top-off water (and will be pulled from with an auto-topoff turning on/off an Aqualifter pump. The large portion of the sump towards the front will be a refugium/frag area. Oh, and I added 2" tabs with holes for attaching the wood facing on the stand. Anyone see anything I'm missing, something I could improve or you think I should change?