apr20vturbo

I am not arguing that Qua isn't harming the sharks and rays, I said I don't know that they are doing anything worse than what we do. By your logic it is ok to have a negative impact on the ocean as long as you are not in it to make a profit?

Just an FYI I am only stating that I disagree with you guys because I do, I am sorry if you guys think that it was mean by sharing my thoughts. I can down there to visit a friend that lives in austin and I figured I would see if there was a reef club that had anything cool to buy in the for sale section. I stumbled along this post, and I commented with my opinions. I enjoy this hobby just like most of you....

That is what I am trying to get across. A.)How can any of us (us being anyone in the reef keeping hobby) say that this night club is any more morally wrong than we are for what we do? B.)Who actually has facts (PETA doesn't have any from what I have seen) about how bad the club is treating the animals it has? I am not trying to defend the club as being good, I just see no good reason for all the attacks...if you have them let me know. How is a debate detrimental to the spirit of the forum? These are just differing opinions are we all supposed to drone behind one another?

I live in the DFW area and don't work for anything close to a bar....again what would it matter and why do you think the bar would even care what you guys thought?

insults?? really? There is scientific evidence that this hobby has a much more negative impact on the ocean than this night club. I apologize if the arguments are like a 2yr old to you, can you please humor me and if you have points other than name calling can you bring them up?

that was my point It doesnt matter if you have stopped, the damage is done. How can you fault this guy who may have been mis-informed as you were. He must have someone telling him this is humane and a great set-up for the animals. (IMO of course b/c I have no facts other than the news) you should also add if you use any medicine that was developed from animals/wear anything that has animals involved etc...Thats my point...I don't think its inhumane. I enjoy this hobby but I also don't think you can have double standards that say I can do it but you can't It is not my intention to say that you are doing anything wrong as IMO I dont think you are. I am just saying you can't point fingers when we do the same thing I am not sure about that either...but I am not going to condemn the club for my lack of knowledge. I have no idea, why doesn't the club try to send him an email/letter/visit him and voice your concerns....although I doubt you will get very far for a while since PETA decided they didn't like the place. I would highly encourage you guys to do this…..that way you would know for sure what they are using and if it's human to you guys or not.

LOL I knew that was coming. No I don't work there but what would it matter if I owned the place? Or could the local suppliers be angry that the club didn't choose them...again this is all rumor, there is no proof. Some people say that is not possible, what makes your opinion better than those that criticize our hobby…and to take it further what makes your opinion better than the club owner? Just because you think it's the "best" environment doesn't mean it is. Maybe that guy thinks that he has created the "best" environment for the sharks? What do you define success as? Are the fish happy? Do you talk to them?? What makes you think I am picking on him? I do the same thing. I am bringing up a point that we KILL STARFISH. We have no problems with it, as we see it as natural…but is it? since when have star fish been confined in such a small area relative to their predator? For that matter what about the krill/brine shrimp I feed my tangs and triggers? Not in the slightest! I can't stand fruits and veggies Again this is said all the time about our hobby. Semi-healthy to you and semi-healthy to others is different. We are promoting a hobby that collects fish from the natural waters they come from, put them in tiny containers, ship them across the world, starve them, stress them etc. Many of them die on the way to the LFS and all because of our hobby.

That doesn't seem to be something I can go by, so I guess I will just call them rumors for now You don't think that they are thinking the same thing and that they had some sort of expert come by to tell them how to do it? I am sure the club owner is not an expert and would have no idea how to start How do you know so much about the filtration? do you work there? Have you see all of it? How do you know for a fact that the "three-inch acrylic barrier that's soundproof and vibration-proof" doesn't work? Some would say the same about your choice of livestock vs. the ocean or your Harlequin that kills starfish...what about the starfish's "rights" to have a better chance at survival? Or does it only matter what livestock you like best? Some call this hobby inhumane...what is the difference? No, I don't live in austin, I just came down to visit a friend. Just to be clear I am not trying to "start" anything, just trying to see both sides. I hope you don't take this personal

"They have killed more then one. They did not spend that much in research." "Oh wait, they did and heard that the tank was set-up poorly and they didn't listen." where do you read those facts? and don't you (and everyone else in this hobby) take fish out of their perfectly good home in the massive ocean and put them in a tiny tank for your enjoyment thus vastly increasing their chances of death? How many fish has everyone here killed in their tank over the time they have been in the hobby?

guilty until proven innocent?