ChaosFyre
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Posts posted by ChaosFyre
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I thought some more about it. What size is your little fry tank which they hatch in? I could probably come up with a black fiber "cage" exactly that size and hang it in my sump or tank. Then the fry would benefit from the extra filtration and still be in peaceful darkness. The problem would be collecting the eggs before they hatch and putting them in there without damaging them. My friend's clowns lay eggs fine in the display tank, they hatch but either get eaten or starve.
Maybe a turkey baster could spot-pick the eggs up gently. Otherwise you'd have to get the clowns to lay in a pot or on a removable rock in the DT somehow.
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Btw, what just happened? I spilled something on my mouse last night and its acting up. I tried to edit a post, and now suddenly instead of 6 pages, the thread has 2 and the post I was editing is gone lol. Luckily I copy-pasted it and reposted it above.
It's in your water change thread
.Ah okay thanks. My mouse must have jumped me back a page or two.
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Chaos, I'd think you'd want to put them in you QT from the start. Maybe get the parents to lay there and thn move them out.
agree
>Thanks for responding to everything. I am a little embarrassed seeing all I wrote lol. You gave great responses though, and answered all my questions well. My black clown is not that big, but he is all black. You may see him in my tank thread in month 5. Boy would I love some black snowflake clowns... I saw black ice snowflakes in the LFS today. They looked really cool, but they were going for $110 each! And they were really small. I'd prefer a black snowflake, maybe buckshot black snowflake, anyway. Maybe I can somehow breed mine, get black ice clowns, and sell/trade the fry for black snowflake. By that time I hope to have another tank set up to put it in. Have you had any success/experience/advice getting two pairs or more of clowns in the same DT tank? <typically multiple pairs in the same DT isn't going to happen unless you have a very large system and perhaps only if they were together from the get go as babies...even then most have to separate them as they mature and establish dominance>
Also, have you heard of clownfish actually being hatched and raised in a DT with other fish? <there are too many variables in trying to raise fry in a DT, not sure where to even begin>
I had an idea to put the eggs/fry in a long tube sock, maybe black cloth or something, with wiring inside to keep it from collapsing, and a lid to keep light out. <interesting thought, my only thought is that there would be way too many clowns in such a small area to keep up with a dense population of rotifers, would require hourly feedings I would think> Clowns eat rotifers first, then switch to frozen mysis shrimp, right? <I go from live rotifers to Otohime, a lot of people recommend live rotifers to live brine shrimp then to Otohime. Too many variables for me with feeding live brine> Once they got large enough I could move them to my QT to grow out. <nothing says you couldn't try your idea, sounds very creative but I just went with what works and then made my own mods as I have progressed>
Or maybe I should just convert my QT from the start... <LOL>
When you say he is all black is he all black like a midnight clownfish or black and white like a darwin? Doesn't matter, just curious what you have.
After reading this thread, I'm a bit more informed. My clown is not midnight, its just a Darwin. What I meant by "all black" was that it doesn't have that unsightly brown-orange face. I heard that the juveniles grow out of that and eventually become all black, but I've seen a few big ugly clowns and I didn't want to risk it. I bought mine solid black & white from the start, and he isn't that big, maybe an inch and a half, two inches.
He is a misbar on one side and pretty much normal on the other. I guess that makes him technically a misbar. I really like him. His female is a snowflake with bold black lines outlining her white stripes, with some interesting blue-ish lines between her whites and the black borders.
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I had an idea to put the eggs/fry in a long tube sock, maybe black cloth or something, with wiring inside to keep it from collapsing, and a lid to keep light out. <interesting thought, my only thought is that there would be way too many clowns in such a small area to keep up with a dense population of rotifers, would require hourly feedings I would think>
i don't she, or her fiancée, may have have really big feet.
Lol, I didn't mean literally, a sock. I meant, like, a wind-sock. A DIY sock, if you will. =)
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Btw, what just happened? I spilled something on my mouse last night and its acting up. I tried to edit a post, and now suddenly instead of 6 pages, the thread has 2 and the post I was editing is gone lol. Luckily I copy-pasted it and reposted it above.
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Okay, so if I'm not seeing algae blooms then don't worry about phosphates. And don't worry about alk/ca unless I get finicky SPS corals. And I kind of agree with the 20-40 being too high. Right now my nitrates are between 0-5 ppm and I like it there. Everything seems happy.
Also, I have decided it was the lights causing the growth. In the past few days I have noticed baby everythings, everywhere. I think I was worrying prematurely about the growth. I had a frag of 3 paly polyps that has doubled, the GSP has double and it was already a palm-size fragment, and my eye of rah already filled in the piece I fragged off a couple weeks ago, and some of my other 1 or 2 head fragments of palys or zoas have also doubled. Also, I am seeing a huge size increase in zoas that were miniature in someone elses tank and had been miniature in my tank... until now. I'm getting MONSTROUS size zoa heads, and the stalks are at least a good inch long on my eye of rah. Also, the anthelia has lots of babies in density, but isn't really spreading out yet (but thats not really surprising, I guess).
The only thing left to worry about is that bit of "rot" showing up on the anthelia. Even after the massive water changes, it wasn't defeated. I'm thinking its the salinity, and I just bought a D-D saltwater refractometer for $22 off of ebay. Its brand new, comes with a hard case and all the parts. You can read about why its a bit special here:
http://reefbuilders....ater-saltwater/
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ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.
Patrick
Hey Patrick, that's an interesting fact. Could you find some scientific documents supporting the statement? I'd love to read up on it.
Like I said ealier I do not test for nitrates but a common reason I have suspect people so often are advised to keep nitrates low is typically with measurable ammounts, as in 20, 40 or higher ppm or mg/l, is indicative of an aquarist that is not doing thier maintenace(but not necessarilly so). Corals and fish can tolerate surprisingly high levels of nitrates. One down side though is high nitrates can cause accelerated coral growth making for a weaker skeleton1 While Delbeek and Sprung point out the DISSOLVED nitrate (NO3-N) levels of natural seawater off Waikiki Aquarium measure 8 ppb (.008 mg/l) they reccomend for reef aquaria nitrate levels should be less than 1 ppm nitrate-nitrogen "ideally but need not be maintained so low"1. Keep in mind if you are using a test kit that is measuring nitrate ion and not nitrate-nitrogen your reading is about 4.4x higher.
Phosphates and nitrogen (as ammonium and/or nitrites and/or nitrates) is essential and are limiting nutrients for plants and algae which includes the symbiotic dinoflagellates corals use. Too low and the plant or algae dies. This may not neccesarily kill the coral as they are capable of living without their symbionts. The mistake should not be made that reef systems in the wild are low nutrient systems, here's an interesting quote by Charles Delbeek "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs"2. This was echoed by Dr. Gerald Heslinga, ipsf.com, in a conversation with Subsea I overheard at NextWave 2011 in Dallas.
1 Delbeek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III pg 175 & 176
2 Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127
This is a great take-away, thank you. Then maybe the nitrate spike WAS responsible for that bit of coral growth after all. Since I have soft corals, would you recommend just leaving it between 20-40 ppm?
I have serious doubts that a nitrate spike was the cause of a growth in coral of just about any variety. In terms of efficiency, macro and nuisance algae are able to take and use those nutrients at a much more rapid pace than any coral that I'm familiar with. I would expect an algal bloom to take place *before* i saw an increase in coral growth rates.
IMO, 20-40 ppm is too high and it's too easy to export (water change, skimmer, fuge, whatever method) to let it get that high. It has been my experience that phosphate is going to be the parameter that you need to be pickier about watching. You might have some nitrate swings come and go without noticing, but you are very likely to get GHA or cyano if your phosphate isn't under control.
Like most have said here, it's like cooking: When you start out you definitely need to measure and fret, but as you do it longer you can just tell when something isn't right wrt to NO3/PO3. Alk/Ca are a different story, but with the stock you currently have, those parameters are not as important until you start to get into the more demanding acros/SPS.
ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.Patrick
Hey Patrick, that's an interesting fact. Could you find some scientific documents supporting the statement? I'd love to read up on it.
Like I said ealier I do not test for nitrates but a common reason I have suspect people so often are advised to keep nitrates low is typically with measurable ammounts, as in 20, 40 or higher ppm or mg/l, is indicative of an aquarist that is not doing thier maintenace(but not necessarilly so). Corals and fish can tolerate surprisingly high levels of nitrates. One down side though is high nitrates can cause accelerated coral growth making for a weaker skeleton1 While Delbeek and Sprung point out the DISSOLVED nitrate (NO3-N) levels of natural seawater off Waikiki Aquarium measure 8 ppb (.008 mg/l) they reccomend for reef aquaria nitrate levels should be less than 1 ppm nitrate-nitrogen "ideally but need not be maintained so low"1. Keep in mind if you are using a test kit that is measuring nitrate ion and not nitrate-nitrogen your reading is about 4.4x higher.
Phosphates and nitrogen (as ammonium and/or nitrites and/or nitrates) is essential and are limiting nutrients for plants and algae which includes the symbiotic dinoflagellates corals use. Too low and the plant or algae dies. This may not neccesarily kill the coral as they are capable of living without their symbionts. The mistake should not be made that reef systems in the wild are low nutrient systems, here's an interesting quote by Charles Delbeek "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs"2. This was echoed by Dr. Gerald Heslinga, ipsf.com, in a conversation with Subsea I overheard at NextWave 2011 in Dallas.
1 Delbeek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III pg 175 & 176
2 Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127
This is a great take-away, thank you. Then maybe the nitrate spike WAS responsible for that bit of coral growth after all. Since I have soft corals, would you recommend just leaving it between 20-40 ppm?
I have serious doubts that a nitrate spike was the cause of a growth in coral of just about any variety. In terms of efficiency, macro and nuisance algae are able to take and use those nutrients at a much more rapid pace than any coral that I'm familiar with. I would expect an algal bloom to take place *before* i saw an increase in coral growth rates.
IMO, 20-40 ppm is too high and it's too easy to export (water change, skimmer, fuge, whatever method) to let it get that high. It has been my experience that phosphate is going to be the parameter that you need to be pickier about watching. You might have some nitrate swings come and go without noticing, but you are very likely to get GHA or cyano if your phosphate isn't under control.
Like most have said here, it's like cooking: When you start out you definitely need to measure and fret, but as you do it longer you can just tell when something isn't right wrt to NO3/PO3. Alk/Ca are a different story, but with the stock you currently have, those parameters are not as important until you start to get into the more demanding acros/SPS.
Okay, so if I'm not seeing algae blooms then don't worry about phosphates. And don't worry about alk/ca unless I get finicky SPS corals. And I kind of agree with the 20-40 being too high. Right now my nitrates are between 0-5 ppm and I like it there. Everything seems happy.
Also, I have decided it was the lights causing the growth. In the past few days I have noticed baby everythings, everywhere. I think I was worrying prematurely about the growth. I had a frag of 3 paly polyps that has doubled, the GSP has double and it was already a palm-size fragment, and my eye of rah already filled in the piece I fragged off a couple weeks ago, and some of my other 1 or 2 head fragments of palys or zoas have also doubled. Also, I am seeing a huge size increase in zoas that were miniature in someone elses tank and had been miniature in my tank... until now. I'm getting MONSTROUS size zoa heads, and the stalks are at least a good inch long on my eye of rah. Also, the anthelia has lots of babies in density, but isn't really spreading out yet (but thats not really surprising, I guess).
The only thing left to worry about is that bit of "rot" showing up on the anthelia. Even after the massive water changes, it wasn't defeated. I'm thinking its the salinity, and I just bought a D-D saltwater refractometer for $22 off of ebay. Its brand new, comes with a hard case and all the parts. You can read about why its a bit special here:
http://reefbuilders.com/2010/07/12/dd-seawater-refractometer-scaled-calibrated-seawater-saltwater/
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But, as a beginner, everything is new and exciting. I'm sure 5 years down the line I'll be sick of xenia and will have moved on to hard corals.
I'm way off topic. I might have to move this to private conversation lol...
I'm definately with you on the first part. Not sure about the second. I am not as big of a fan of the SPS that many others seem to be. I think a few SPS mixed in may look nice, but I don't like them enough to dedicate a whole tank to them.
Which works out well for me since the ones I do really like are supposed to be easier.
Can I just say, your tank seems to be doing quite well, with the exception of the Xenia. It seems that a lot of the tests you are considering, and dosing you are talking about, and for more advanced things that you don't have. I may be wrong (using my normal don't know much caveat). But just be careful about doing too many things at once. Of course, feel free to tell me to shut up and mind my own business.
No, I think you and everyone else are completely right about me getting ahead of myself. I am just be a worry-wort!
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You are absolutely right. I agree with this completely. I like to do a lot of research, and if I can find a solution I can afford, I'll happily go with it. If not, and its something big, (like my skimmer) I'll save up for it!Good point ckyuv. I kind of feel like through all the testing methods, gear selections, and arguments about what parameters are appropriate for what, thing thing that the OP can take away is...
Your goals and your livestock will dictate your tank husbandry. There are more ways to keep a reef than there are to skin a cat. Just depends on your budget and what you want to stare at in your home. I'm one of the newer reefers on this site and of all the advice I've personally asked for and read for others, that seems to sum it up. I now treat reef keeping like a problem/solution scenario. I desire something for my tank, I make it happen within my means. I don't like this or that? I research and fix it for whatever way works best. There are a few obvious absolute right and wrong things to do, but most of it comes down to your specific goals. And then there is alot of gray area. Hope that helps
And yes, the biggest proof of that is this: I use tap water! Everyone uses RODi water, but it seems wasteful, expensive, and its taking nutrients out of the water that you have to put back in if you have coral that need dosing... It does prevent nuisance algae, but I've never had a problem with that. And I'm sure there are things in some tap water that certain corals don't like, but I've got (almost) dummy-proof corals lol.
You wouldn't believe how many doom-sayers were nagging on me about using tap-- "You'll have an algae explosion no matter what you do, its inevitable etc etc".
Well maybe its just the BCS water here, but a lot of people in town use straight tap for SW tanks.
I have been using tap water for 40 years. Straight into the tank from the Aquifier. Patrick
Patrick, do you use water conditioner? I have some stuff that has sulfur in it and absorbs chlorine, ammonia, and chloramine, and detoxifies nitrate and nitrite. I add about a cap full for every 50 gallons. Its called Prime, freshwater and saltwater, by Seachem. I've had the same bottle for about 6 months, and it was only $10.
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Its on its own removable fragment, but if it spreads to the little live rock its on, that will be fine too. Nothing is glued down so if it spreads I can isolate that rock. So far it hasn't spread outwards, just gotten denser. Actually, if you check the emergency thread, you may see that my anthelia and xenias are in danger of death from something...Your pictures are very nice. I do like the lacy feather look to the waving hand Athenia. I suggest you keep it on one rock that can be removed if required. Out of all the fast growing soft corals, waving hand is the most invasive.
Patrick
Maybe I can culture it and pass it on to people who need xenia/anthelia control
hopefully its not deadly to other corals!
In my 11 year old Jaubert Plenum 75G tank, I can not keep Xenia alive. Be aware that softies are well known for chemical warfare. You should regularly use activated carbon and replace small amounts each week.
Patrick
Its on its own removable fragment, but if it spreads to the little live rock its on, that will be fine too. Nothing is glued down so if it spreads I can isolate that rock. So far it hasn't spread outwards, just gotten denser. Actually, if you check the emergency thread, you may see that my anthelia and xenias are in danger of death from something...Your pictures are very nice. I do like the lacy feather look to the waving hand Athenia. I suggest you keep it on one rock that can be removed if required. Out of all the fast growing soft corals, waving hand is the most invasive.
Patrick
Maybe I can culture it and pass it on to people who need xenia/anthelia control
hopefully its not deadly to other corals!
In my 11 year old Jaubert Plenum 75G tank, I can not keep Xenia alive. Be aware that softies are well known for chemical warfare. You should regularly use activated carbon and replace small amounts each week.
Patrick
Thanks, that's good info. I only had a 3 small fragments in a 90 gallon tank... really really small fragments. I don't think that is the problem, but I do have activated carbon (its probably bad by now).
However, were you the one who mentioned to check the salinity as a cause for wilting soft corals!? I found something really scary today. I spoke to my friends about calibrating a hydrometer against one of their refractometers, and we haven't gotten to test it yet but we estimate my hydrometer was reading about 1 1/2 points higher. For example, if mine read 1.025 exactly, its actually at 1.0265 which is not horribly bad...but still not good.
I cleaned my hydrometer with vinegar and let it sit for a day. Then I rinsed it out with water, left tap water in it and let it sit for a day. Today I checked my salinity and it read 1.030!!!!
Did I break my hydrometer by leaving the vinegar in it too long, or did I just clean it so well that now its reading true again!? It did seem to take a lot more salt that usual to get my water to what I thought was 1.025. By now my xenias are gone, and my anthelia is hanging on, with some white burns starting at its tips and slowly spreading down. I keep adding freshwater every couple days to bring the salinity down slowly, and even after doing that, the meter read 1.030 today and its really scaring me. Should I assume that its now reading true and being lowering the salinity even more!?
Well, but straight fresh water is reading at about 1.080. I think I'm going to order a refractometer, but for now I need advice.
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Lol @ richard's green toadstools. Me and dustin talked about going halves on one then waiting for it to grow out in someones tank and frag it between us later.
Aquadome was cool, I LOVE their black snowflake clown pair ($500
) and their radioactive red clowns right at the front (what color morph IS that?? I have seen it before). I didn't buy anything there though. Some of the stuff I wanted was too small but still full price. I liked some of their stars, the red/orange glowy ones, but I think they were $20 and it wasn't really worth it. They had a LOT of great coral, but not much I would keep as a beginner. I spent a good hour there just looking.Aquatek was also cool-- very helpful staff, love the weekend deals. I got a 6 pack of frags for $28. He threw in some random stray polyp I pointed out, for $1.
Fishy business was okay, kind of small but they had some interesting stuff. If you go, flatter the owner because he can be a cranky old guy, but he's nice if you are. The display tank in the front is PINK. So much pink. More pink than I have seen in any tank. I got one of his neon pink glowing mushrooms for $12, and he threw in a little purple mushroom for free. I also got my black clown from him, misbarred on one side, normal on the other. You've seen the pictures I'm sure.
That pink mushroom and the kryptonite candy cane I got from Richard are the two brightest things in my tank. And maybe the dragon eyes from Dustin. I love the red ones (eagle eyes?).
About growth and the 2 month acclimation period, that makes sense. I started seeing a lot more growth on things that have been in my tank for a while vs. things I recently got, but I also just got new lights and saw growth OVERNIGHT after I added them (kenya tree, mostly, though there was polyp extension too). Except for the GSP--that stuff was growing from day 1 and is already twice as big as it started out a couple weeks ago.
I don't think I'd mind rigorous pruning of invasive corals. I love how they look, and I can't keep my hands out of the tank anyway. I am constantly OCDing... All I do is stare at the tank and talk on the forum lol (embarrassing)
. So... at least it would give me something to do. 
But, as a beginner, everything is new and exciting. I'm sure 5 years down the line I'll be sick of xenia and will have moved on to hard corals. At least I know how to kill it now =P. I'm pretty sure my xenias are all dead.
Speaking of, I think I have some red shelf coral with the spikes coming out of the top that is growing on my live rock. It used to look like coraline algae but has steadily grown outwards.
Also, today I saw a clam in my tank. Or a mussel or something. O_o where did that come from and when did that get there? Its alive and moving. I found it on my eagle eyes. I have no idea what kind it is.
I'm way off topic. I might have to move this to private conversation lol...
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Thanks for the comments Kim. Here's a fts taken right now. Cell phone pic with only blues on but you get the idea. I'm running short on grow out room for my sps frags. I have about 30-40 pounds of liverock I have curing right now that I'm gonna add soon. There are some large pieces of holey rock in the tank that serve little purpose besides adding weight to the tank so they gotta go. One piece I'm adding is a shelf which I hope to go up high so these Acros may do well there. No complaints from any of my corals as is, but always room for improvement. It's tough to get a decent scape on a 55 gallon because of how narrow they are. I'd swap the contents of my planted tank (75 gallon) and my reef in a heartbeat, but my fw tank has fish that are too large for a 55.
My extra liverock I want to add is done curing and is processing a whole shrimp from frozen to gone and just nitrate within a weeks time but I just don't have the time to pull everything, rescape, and re mount all the corals. Part of it is I haven't found a job yet so it's hard to justify spending the entire day that would take instead of job hunting. The second I find one though its happening lol. Till then I'll just keep feedi g the curing tank so the rock doesn't die.
Hey, I'm there with the job search problem. Maybe its BCS... jeeze. But Dustin says he needs 2 drivers at Domino's. Not the best job, definitely not my major lol, but he says you can make up to $19 per hour and the hours are very flexible, so I'm going to apply. He's the manager so I think he means I have one of the jobs.
The rock you want to get rid of, is it oceanic rock or the same landscaping rock stuff I have? I can always use more live rock. I want to get rid of some of my landscaping rock over time.
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Brs dual reactor with brs gfo and rox0.8 carbon
Kalkwasser administered through jbj ato^I am wanting these.
Wanna come test my calcium levels? lol No seriously. I'm planning on buying a phosphate test kit today if you want to test yours in turn, just out of curiosity. I'm getting one because I'm afraid my rocks are leeching phostphates...
Do you dose epsom salts for magnesium? Your setup looks great so far. Also, didn't see RODi filter on the list. I'm wavering back and forth on whether I want one or not. You said you had one, right?
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Thanks for responding to everything. I am a little embarrassed seeing all I wrote lol. You gave great responses though, and answered all my questions well. My black clown is not that big, but he is all black. You may see him in my tank thread in month 5. Boy would I love some black snowflake clowns... I saw black ice snowflakes in the LFS today. They looked really cool, but they were going for $110 each! And they were really small. I'd prefer a black snowflake, maybe buckshot black snowflake, anyway. Maybe I can somehow breed mine, get black ice clowns, and sell/trade the fry for black snowflake. By that time I hope to have another tank set up to put it in. Have you had any success/experience/advice getting two pairs or more of clowns in the same DT tank?
Also, have you heard of clownfish actually being hatched and raised in a DT with other fish?
I had an idea to put the eggs/fry in a long tube sock, maybe black cloth or something, with wiring inside to keep it from collapsing, and a lid to keep light out. Clowns eat rotifers first, then switch to frozen mysis shrimp, right? Once they got large enough I could move them to my QT to grow out.
Or maybe I should just convert my QT from the start...
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Lol yeah I usually don't talk to people in the store. Awkward. I do know that one of the aggie football players has a reef tank of some sort. Saw him buy one of their carpet anemone and some fish one day. He sounded like he knew all the staff well based on their interactions. I stop by and look once every couple weeks but rarely buy. The corals are way over priced. Hopefully I have time to check out river city aquatics, aquadome, or aquatek in Austin this Thursday. Gotta love $5-$10 frag tanks
Have you been to any of them yet? I hit up all of those places when I went a few weeks ago. The only one I didn't see was Aquafarms, but I heard they have really expensive corals. I'm all for cheap coral frags, so when I go to petco, its NOT the coral I'm looking at lol. I agree they are way overpriced-- $50 for a rock with few mushrooms, no way!
I'm more for looking at the livestock. Yesterday they had two snowflake black ice clowns, and a gorgeous wrasse. Dustin took home a large blue hippo tang and an engineer goby.
Also, bought some lights and frags from a guy named Richard in Austin. You may check him out if you can find him on here, he had some awesome neon green leather frags with neon green polyps, that doesn't shed. I really wanted some. I can text you a pic of it. He also has cotton candy blue and pink cyphastrea I wanted, and kryptonite candy cane I got, and some other good stuff.
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I'm Jonathan. I didn't know there was a new local. I imagine there are many many more people locally that have reef tanks but they just aren't big forum users. I've met a couple but its been more of a "here's your corals, now get lost" ordeal. Right now I just know you and Dustin
Well hey, jonathon, didn't know you were on here.
and lol ^ that doesn't sound pleasant. I guess the most social ones are the people you meet standing in front of the saltwater section of petco, staring. Thats pretty much how I met everyone.. that and craigslist. I'll give you the number for the guy if I can find it. I think John has it in his wallet.So what are your tank specs? Because dustin told me he gave you a frag and it took off. In a month, it went from 3 to 8 polyps. What do you keep your nitrates at, and what equipment do you have? Do you dose? What kind of lights? What do you test for?
I don't think I've seen your tank yet.
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Hey! You're in BCS with me? You should come check out my tank. I visit Dustin kind of often. Or have we already met...? lol I know Jonathon, Ron (moved to Paris, TX), and Dustin. I also met a couple guys at petco-- Michael (moved/moving, sold his tank I think) and I believe another Michael who gave us his card and just moved in, wants to start selling coral frags.I'm pretty much the only BCS reef keeper that uses RODI water lol
There are more of us around than are active on the BCS aquarist facebook group (or whatever its called).
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ALL PHOTOSYNTHETIC CORAL REQUIRE NITRATE TO EXIST.
Patrick
Hey Patrick, that's an interesting fact. Could you find some scientific documents supporting the statement? I'd love to read up on it.
Like I said ealier I do not test for nitrates but a common reason I have suspect people so often are advised to keep nitrates low is typically with measurable ammounts, as in 20, 40 or higher ppm or mg/l, is indicative of an aquarist that is not doing thier maintenace(but not necessarilly so). Corals and fish can tolerate surprisingly high levels of nitrates. One down side though is high nitrates can cause accelerated coral growth making for a weaker skeleton1 While Delbeek and Sprung point out the DISSOLVED nitrate (NO3-N) levels of natural seawater off Waikiki Aquarium measure 8 ppb (.008 mg/l) they reccomend for reef aquaria nitrate levels should be less than 1 ppm nitrate-nitrogen "ideally but need not be maintained so low"1. Keep in mind if you are using a test kit that is measuring nitrate ion and not nitrate-nitrogen your reading is about 4.4x higher.
Phosphates and nitrogen (as ammonium and/or nitrites and/or nitrates) is essential and are limiting nutrients for plants and algae which includes the symbiotic dinoflagellates corals use. Too low and the plant or algae dies. This may not neccesarily kill the coral as they are capable of living without their symbionts. The mistake should not be made that reef systems in the wild are low nutrient systems, here's an interesting quote by Charles Delbeek "When I see the colors of some of these low nutrient tanks I can't help but be reminded of bleached coral reefs . . . Our crystal clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs"2. This was echoed by Dr. Gerald Heslinga, ipsf.com, in a conversation with Subsea I overheard at NextWave 2011 in Dallas.
1 Delbeek and Sprung "The Reef Aquarium" Vol III pg 175 & 176
2 Coral Nov/Dec 2010 pg 127
This is a great take-away, thank you. Then maybe the nitrate spike WAS responsible for that bit of coral growth after all. Since I have soft corals, would you recommend just leaving it between 20-40 ppm?
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Good point ckyuv. I kind of feel like through all the testing methods, gear selections, and arguments about what parameters are appropriate for what, thing thing that the OP can take away is...
Your goals and your livestock will dictate your tank husbandry. There are more ways to keep a reef than there are to skin a cat. Just depends on your budget and what you want to stare at in your home. I'm one of the newer reefers on this site and of all the advice I've personally asked for and read for others, that seems to sum it up. I now treat reef keeping like a problem/solution scenario. I desire something for my tank, I make it happen within my means. I don't like this or that? I research and fix it for whatever way works best. There are a few obvious absolute right and wrong things to do, but most of it comes down to your specific goals. And then there is alot of gray area. Hope that helps
You are absolutely right. I agree with this completely. I like to do a lot of research, and if I can find a solution I can afford, I'll happily go with it. If not, and its something big, (like my skimmer) I'll save up for it!
And yes, the biggest proof of that is this: I use tap water! Everyone uses RODi water, but it seems wasteful, expensive, and its taking nutrients out of the water that you have to put back in if you have coral that need dosing... It does prevent nuisance algae, but I've never had a problem with that. And I'm sure there are things in some tap water that certain corals don't like, but I've got (almost) dummy-proof corals lol.
You wouldn't believe how many doom-sayers were nagging on me about using tap-- "You'll have an algae explosion no matter what you do, its inevitable etc etc".
Well maybe its just the BCS water here, but a lot of people in town use straight tap for SW tanks.
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In another thread today, Timfish acknowledged that he does not measure nitrate. Is that cheap enough? Patrick
lol
Well, I'm a novice and I don't trust myself. I haven't quite found the balance of how much water I need to change and when. Every tank is different.. Some say 20% once a month, others 20% weekly, and others 10-15% daily. I do have a little testing kit I got from petco for $10, and it still has quite a few tests left in it. I can at least afford that.
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Okay so, last night I noticed some coral growth I hadn't seen before. First of all, the long GSP I put on the back wall is twice as big since I got it maybe a month ago. Last night I saw baby polyps coming out of the new growth area. Cute!
2nd, the short GSP is really picky. It seemed to like high flow, but there were parts that hadn't opened, and plus its rock was blocking the powerhead's flow to the rest of the tank. I moved it a bit and moved the powerhead too, keeping it along the line of flow, and now its all closed again! I can't seem to please it. I don't know if it doesn't like being so close to the lights or what. The good news is the zoas on the same rock are now very happy.
3rd, I noticed a new polyp from one of my palys that is at least half the size of the adults. There were only 3 polyps on the fragment, so it was easy to notice a 4th. They've been in there for a couple months and hadn't grown at all til now. I'm guessing the new lights caused it... that's more logical than thinking the nitrate spike did, anyway.
4th, I've also noticed a great improvement of color on my dragoneye?/watermelon? polyps in the last couple weeks. Especially on the ones that face the light. Before, the entire thing was brownish green, no GFP to be seen. Now the skirt is becoming radioactive green. I guess that is one answer to my question on how to make the color better--better lights!
Also other good news: the water hose trick seemed to work, and I didn't see any harm from those weird white specks floating in the bucket after I mixed it. The nitrates are 0-10 ppm (I'm really not good at reading the color, seems to change a lot depending on what light you look at it in). I did see that the clove polyps are not rotting after all, but I'm not sure if the remaining pulsing xenia got worse/better. The original xenia is still not looking pretty. I will have to observe longer to see if its getting worse or if its stable. A lot of the stalks fell off.
I also adjusted my AC110 so it filters more efficiently. I bought some Crystal Clear water clarifier to clump up the fine particles in the water. Then I pushed the AC110 filter to try to get some corals out of its flow, and BAM the clumps of dirt came rushing out of the filter. I saw a gap where water was escaping the filter without actually going through the filter pad. I rinsed the filter pad really well, replaced it, then wedged a household sponge in the gap and dropped a bag of activated carbon on top for good measure. All the dust I kicked up by messing with the filter was filtered out of the water in minutes!! The water that comes out of it is now crystal clear even if I disturb the filter. I may buy a new bag of activated carbon today, since that one is a couple months old. I'll also re-rinse the sponge today since it had a lot of cleaning to do last night..
Also on the list: pantyhose socks to use as filter socks for the overflow box. Every time I do a water change, I'm amazed at how much gunk has collected on the bottom of the sump. Then again, maybe I should stop feeding the fish near the overflow box.....Either way, this will help.
I'm getting my reef octopus skimmer next weekend, and if I have money after that, I'll pick up a phosban reactor.
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You're right, it should be well cultured by now. I also don't know how long leaching could be a problem. But if you like the way your aquascape looks you should consider leaving it. If you have any left over you can put a piece in water for a while. Test phosphates before and after putting it in. I think 3 days is enough.
I'm not sure how good this source is (wet web media), but here is an artical on phosphates. http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_5/volume_5_3/phosphates.htm
Thanks a bunch! I read the whole article and it looks like I'll be wanting a phosban reactor + my skimmer to kill nitrates and phosphates most efficiently.
I'm impressed that her/his skimmer had 100 times the amount of nitrates in the cup than in the tank. That's very efficient removal! -
I thought of something else:
To minimize or completely eliminate hermit/snail predation (besides feeding algae wafers),
buy a couple $1 decorative basket of assorted shells from the dollar store. pick out the hermit crab / snail shells, rinse them, and drop them into your tank. You can do this every few months as the shells get buried in the substrate.
I have hermit crabs, and still have all my snails from day 1, and babies too now.
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The only problems I hear with Jawfish is their major jumpers. There are a couple people that have them in there tank and what they did was add barnacles around a PVC pipe or just glued sand or rocks to the pipe to give it a home. Sometimes it's hit or miss though if they'll use it. Check out Aaarrrggg's Build http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/19737-aaarrrgggs-144g-half-circle/
As for Hermits I would highly recommend getting Peppermint shrimps. You can take a trip to the coast and pick a couple up yourself if your in that area or we have members that make trips all the time that post for a rehoming fee. Hermits will just kill a snail that's upside down for their shells.
I haven't had trouble with my hermits. I bought probably 2 pounds of shells from the dollar store. I pulled out all the good hermit crab shells, rinsed them, and dropped them into the water. Watch the shell-changing festival ensue.... They LOVED it. They switched shells all day for 3 days. They never bother my snails, and my snails are laying eggs like crazy. I still count all the adult snails I started with 6 months ago, and now I see baby snails everywhere (astrea, cerith, and stomatella).
Also, I imagine feeding your hermits algae wafers daily or every other day helps a lot. When I drop a few pellets in, You see a wave of hermits racing down the live rock trying to get to them first. The wafers are too hard for the fish the first few hours, so the crabs eat their fill. Its a blast to watch them jealously guard a wafer from fish, or drag one off into a crevice. With these methods, I haven't had any trouble with my hermits, but I only keep small ones like dwarf zebra hermit.
Wanna come test my calcium levels? lol No seriously. 
Clownfish breeding build thread - first go at it
in Reef Keeping
Posted
The lighting wouldn't be a problem if they were in the sump. The green water is a good point though. A 2-5 gallon is easy enough, I have plenty of spare tanks lying around that are all small. But what kind of filtration would I need, if any? I assume sponge filter, but I don't know anything about those.
Thanks for the help
I saw my clowns dancing vigorously last night. They are starting to host a rock... but the other fish keep sticking their noses into the clowns' business and disturbing the dance. Especially the flame angel, who feels threatened by the orange clownfish. I've actually seen the orange snowflake do a twitch dance with the flame angel as they circle each other. No bites or pecking or chasing between them, just the flame being pushy/curious. It makes me anxious, but I was told that when the female reaches sexual maturity she will become more aggressive and territorial and also as she grows, she will become able to handle her own against the flame angel. In the mean time I'm keeping a close eye on her. The flame hasn't shown any aggression towards any other fish, and he was one of the first I put in there (but I chose him for his personality after observing his behavior while housed beside other dwarf angels, and he was even kept with a coral beauty before with no fighting).