ph problem

[wwarriner]

I am so frustrated. I can not get my ph to stay up. I can put in a ph buffer and raise it to 8.1-8.2 for about a day or so, then its back down to 7.6-7.8. If I don't fix it soon, I'm going to lose all my corals. My alk is currently at 15 but my ph is 7.8. Any ideas why it won't stay up?

[Hamp]

What is your calcium and magnesium?

[Timfish]

How long has the pH been low? Have you checked the pH with a different pH test kit or taken a sample to a local fish store to make sure you don't have a problem with your reagent or meter?

[wwarriner]

I have a ph probe and double checked it with a test kit as well. It is definitely low.

It has been low for about 2 weeks now. None of my zoas are out. My pom poms are all shrunk up. My hammer is sucked up, my anemones, the list goes on. I already had one tank crash in January when I was in the hospital and lost all my sps. I don't want to lose all my softies and lps that I have already purchased again.

I do not know my current calcium and magnesium levels. Would they contribute to a low ph?

[+mcallahan]

I ran into the same issue last summer. pH buffer won't help you other than to raise your ALK (shown as your pH is low, but your Alk is high)

Ca/Mg levels won't affect anything either - my tank is always @ 440 or better Ca and 1250 or better Mg. Still my pH would hit 7.68 certain nights.

Solving the issue is actually really easy and I did a show on it -

The root of the problem is most likely high CO2 levels in your house. High C02 drops the pH in your tank. Here is a good article that explains the science of how it works

The big things to do are to open your windows and start using kalkwasser. Kalk is the bomb and your tank will become a lot stable once you start using it. Your corals will love it too.

Until you start using Kalk, opening your windows is where you'll see the quickest gain.

For example, last night my pH was 7.74 @ 3am. I opened my windows then and hours later, my pH is 7.81. If it would have been windy last night, the pH would even be higher as the wind would push out the CO2 in my house and bring in oxygen rich air. Of course if global warming gets as bad as all the south Austin hippies want us to believe it will, I'm screwed.

Lastly, a pH of 7.75 (ish) or higher isn't horrible. Everyone gets stuck on having their tanks @ pH 8.3, but your tank will be fine down to 7.75 area. My tank runs @ 7.75-8.0 all summer and my corals are happy and my growth is amazing. Even the Tank of the Month over @ Reef Central stays between 7.9-8.1 pH. So don't worry if your pH isn't 8.3

[rainbody]

My father had the same issue. His skimmer was pulling in the CO2 from the stale air in his stand. He wasnt willing to open windows so he bought a CO2 scruber. He's ph was back up and stable after that.

[+mcallahan]

My father had the same issue. His skimmer was pulling in the CO2 from the stale air in his stand. He wasnt willing to open windows so he bought a CO2 scruber. He's ph was back up and stable after that.

I'd be interested to hear how fast he goes through media. I used the scrubber last summer and was blowing through a cartridge every 2 weeks. So it just wasn't cost efficient for me. I'd be interested to hear his results though.

[NonSequitur]

Mark and Rainbody are probably right on this one.. that's actually how we calculate CO2 content in freshwater planted tanks.. comparing PH and KH. A tank with a low PH but high KH usually has a lot of dissolved CO2. An easy way to test this: take two water samples.. test the ph of one, place the other one outside for an hour or so, agitating periodically, then test the ph of it. If high CO2 is causing your problem the sample you put outside will have an increased ph because it will have attained (or at least approached) equilibrium with the fresh outdoor air rather than the indoor air.

[+KeeperOfTheZoo]

+1 for a great way to check for CO2 Jeremy. Like the new sig by the way. I have one of those vacancy signs too.

[wwarriner]

I'll try that ph test tonight. If it is due to high CO2 in my apartment, an airstone in the sump wouldn't help at all though right? The only reason I'm freaking out is because all my corals have been shrunk up for a over two weeks now. Not even my zoas are out. I did two 50% water changes this week but that didn't help. I replaced all 6 T5 bulbs in March. I have carbon in a reactor in my sump. If its not the low ph, and all my other parameters are ok (except for the high alk which was caused by the buffer), what else would be making them shrink up?

[+mcallahan]

I'll try that ph test tonight. If it is due to high CO2 in my apartment, an airstone in the sump wouldn't help at all though right? The only reason I'm freaking out is because all my corals have been shrunk up for a over two weeks now. Not even my zoas are out. I did two 50% water changes this week but that didn't help. I replaced all 6 T5 bulbs in March. I have carbon in a reactor in my sump. If its not the low ph, and all my other parameters are ok (except for the high alk which was caused by the buffer), what else would be making them shrink up?

A couple of things:

- what are your phosphates like?

- yes, an airstone in your sump won't help...it'll probably pull down your pH more (I tried it). The airline to your skimmer run outside might help some, but I didn't notice a difference.

- they could be shrinking due to pests/flow/too much/too little light, etc. There are tons of things that can make corals look horrible and you are on the right track by trying to eliminate each thing one by one.

[Derekreefer]

I am so frustrated. I can not get my ph to stay up. I can put in a ph buffer and raise it to 8.1-8.2 for about a day or so, then its back down to 7.6-7.8. If I don't fix it soon, I'm going to lose all my corals. My alk is currently at 15 but my ph is 7.8. Any ideas why it won't stay up?

What time are you testing your PH? It is best to check it after the lights have been on for awhile. Your PH will be naturally lower if you test in the morning.

[wwarriner]

Ok, so I did the ph test and I took a cup of water and left it outside for a few hours and tested the ph and it was a lot higher than my tank water. So, I guess my options are to run a CO2 scrubber or to drip kalk right?

[+mcallahan]

And open your windows.

Note: I tried the co2 scrubber but it was costing me $25/mo in media so it wasn't cost effective. And I saw a .05 increase at best

[+Hydro]

I do not know my current calcium and magnesium levels. Would they contribute to a low ph?

I had the exact same problem a few months back, it was my magnesium that was causing the problem. KH was about 10, Ca 450, and Mag 1050 (low), ph 7.6-7.8. Once I brought the magnesium levels up my PH went up. Also I did see some improvements by running my skimmer air hose outside in to my garage through a hole in the wall that was already there to run my pulmbing through.

With that said you should

1. Find out what your Mag and CA levels are immediately, if both are low this could be the root of your problem.
2. get the 2 part B-ionic gallons, can get at aquatek and RC, start dosing daily
3. Open the windows a couple of times a day and put an airstone in the sump, if you bring the co2 levels down in your apartment an airstone would help.
4. Always use an airstone on replacement water for the tank for at least 24 hrs
5. Can you take the skimmer suction line and run it out a window? Can you put an air pump on a balcony possibly and run the airlines in to airstones in the sump. If so either or both of those ideas will help.
6. If you happen to have some macro algae in your sump or refugium leave the lights on 24 hrs a day, this will also help keep PH up.
7. If your Mag and CA are low doing a decent sized water change could help bring levels up some, but make sure the water is well aerated using fresh air before doing so.

I still have to deal with the problem occasionally, even today my tank dropped to 7.6. I was gone for a few days and didn't add the 2 part like I usually do, now that I've added some it starting to come back up. I have a birdnest that has decided to die on me a couple of days ago, could very well be the ph drop that did it.

Good luck with it, I got so frustrated trying to fix that problem. If you look up the thread "how raise ph without raising KH" you can see the advice that I was given.

[+mcallahan]

Hydro...the ca/mg part is always interesting as my ca is 450 and my Mg is off the charts (above 1250 for my test kit) and my pH sits at 7.79 as I write.

The only thing that makes a difference to me is dosing kalk (still get low pH at night, but it helps) and opening a window to rid my home of CO2.

The funny thing is I have a gas oven and when I run it, my pH drops, even during the dy with my halides on so CO2 is obviously the culprit

[+Hydro]

My ph is 7.8 right now too, I just checked. That is a little low but typical at night and it reaches 8.0 to 8.1 during the day.

That's interesting about you Mg, I CAN"T get mine over 1250. I dose the 2 part daily, I have a calcium reactor with twice the recommended Mg granules mixed in, still only 1250 at best. When my Mg is 1250 my Ph goes between 7.9-8.2 but right now my Mg has dropped to 1150 (checked yesterday b/c of low ph) and that is why my ph is a little low.

CO2 is no longer my problem since running my skimmer airline outside, but Mg levels are still a slight problem. Mark if you turn around and fix your co2 levels and your Mg dropped off you would be in the same boat as me and vise versa. Bottom line is that everything must work in harmony together, people can have the same problem for different reasons...sometimes its a little of everything. Every tank needs the proper Mg, Kh, Ca, O2 levelsto maintain proper Ph levels, any of these get low you will see your ph start to fall off. I spent days reasearching this topic b/c I couldn't figure out what my problem was, I lost several really nice tangs to ich from a sudden ph drop from a large water change, I was using well water and hadn't oxygenated it before putting it in the tank. City water isn't as bad as well water which has a 0% oxygen level.

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No matter what everything suggested to you will only help out your tank.