PeeperKeeper Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 It seems like I've heard that some leather corals give off or "drop" a chemical which is toxic to other corals and that you shouldn't place certain other inverts below them in the tank. This morning I had a panic moment when I came in and looked at the tank because my tube anemone was totally deflated and drawn into the tube, which it hadn't done in the month or so I've had it since I found it's "happy place" in the tank. Even before it was happy, it had never been THIS deflated. Then I looked and saw that the orange zoas I recently got were definitely looking worse than they had when I first put them in about 10 days ago. At that point I started furiously testing all the parameters I had tests for and they were okay (I had run out of pH tests though). Then I remembered having heard that about leathers a LONG time ago, and the zoas were right below the small toadstool leather I have (who started out as a 1/2" piece of tissue a month ago and is just now finished forming a stalk). Not only that, but the part of the zoa frag that looked the worst was the righthand side, which is more "downstream" from the leather when I look at the direction my current seems to be going right there. So am I remembering correctly that a leather gives off a toxin or is there something else wrong with these zoas? Everything else looks okay, zenia are pumping, other patch of zoas are growing onto the next rock, etc. The tube anemone was apparently just pulling a little joke because he re-inflated a half hour or so later. Now I remember that anemones do that occasionally. It's been about 8 years since I was really into this hobby, so I'm kinda re-learning some of the stuff that I had forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammondegge Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 i beleive most corals will have some chemical weapons but the leathers can be especially potent. btw, i decided to move my tube anemone to another tank because it was stinging my corals (another extremely potent sting). so i dug the sand out from around him and started out by trying to gently remove him from the sand - nothin - then i got my fingers deep down 4 inches into the sand and i could not find the end of him, sand is almost 6 inches at this spot. eventually i tugged so hard that about 6" of the tube tore off in my hand. i figured that i either got him or killed him. so i placed the torn piece of tube in the other tank and forgot about him. the next day i went to look at the tube and it was still just a flat piece of slime. oh well. i looked in the tank that i had pulled it from and there he was all open and smiling at me. i think it must be attacked to the bottom of the tank. i dont think there is any way i am going to get him until i change tanks in about a month. evidently these things are either alive or dead, they dont seem to suffer much in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishypets Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I had a leather die once and took out over 1,000 worth of acros with it, that was a very bad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammondegge Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 ouch crybaby2.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishypets Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Yeah that was the first thing I noticed when I got back from a vacation in Jamacia. What a way to end your vacation. angryfire.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquadoc Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 That sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeperKeeper Posted May 5, 2006 Author Share Posted May 5, 2006 The thing is, there's no way they could actually have come in physical contact with each other. I was wondering if the leathers actually excrete a toxin that travels in the current to affect nearby organisms or drops it onto them. Anyway, the zoas look if anything, worse since I moved them. I took a water sample in to be tested and it was all fine (0 Am, N'ite, N'ate and phos, 8.3 pH, 1.024 salinity, 79F temp, 11 degrees carbonate and even my calcium was up to 400, which I've been trying to get up for a while. Randy suggested that maybe they aren't used to the bright lighting in my tank (I have 4 54W T5's and 2 36" T5's on a std. 75g) so I just moved them into the shade. I hope that does it because I really like these zoas. They have super-bright orange skirts. As I said, the other zoas are fine (and they're up in much brighter area, but they came out of someone else's reef tank so I guess they were used to the brightness) as is everything else. Any other ideas of what might be wrong with them? I can get a picture if that would help, but basically they just look like unhappy zoas. A few of them open unenthusiastically, others are closed and even some of the area of the rock that seemed like they were covering pretty well looks more bare. When I moved them, one polyp just came off and went free-floating from when I shook the detritus off the frag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammondegge Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 i have read that leathers are particularly potent in the chemicals that they release. all (most?) corals will release chemicals that dicourage other species from invading their space and this chemical can effect neighbors downstream. Zoas are pretty tough though. what are your zoas doing? what do they look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcreonx Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 It's always a good idea when planning a tank to plan your coral/inverts according it's original location, then ideally add other corals from that area only. Basically a biotope. I have had problems for many years with beautfiul shallow-water acros from Fiji or Tonga RTNing in a tank with leathers from Indonesia and Gorgonians from Florida for no apparent reason at all. Water was perfect in every way... toxicity is a big concern, especially in mixed displays. In my newest tank I've paid careful attention to coral selection and placement. I've choosen coral only from the deeper-waters of the Indo-pacific, which is the pacific side of Indonesia only. This is quite a distance from Fiji, Tonga and the Solomon Islands, where a good majority of our SPS come from. Different ocean, different ocean currents, temperatures, etc. I choose this because of the great diversity that exists here: euphyllias, open brains, corallimorphs, bubbles, foxes, elegances... I admit I have two Ricordeas (Florida ricordeas).... but they've been with me for years Probably the best reason to plan a tank this way: Corals from the same environment have similar requirements... water flow, light, feeding, etc. This is great, as you don't have to blast on coral with light only to shade another from that light. There are always acceptions of course... I have to shield a Nemanzophyllia (Fox) from the same light my Euphyllias get, but this is better than having to shield all of my LPS and shrooms from the big metal halides required to keep all of the high-color SPS I had... that made things very difficult to aquascape. [/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Leather corals, especially sarcophytons, do release a toxin into the water continuously. It's a major growth inhibitor that allows the leather to flourish and the other corals to wane. Running carbon in a tank with leathers is always a good idea as it soaks up many of those toxins. Leathers and SPS DO NOT mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 I'm sorry to hear that you may be having some problems with the leather frag you got from me. I'm glad the zoos are doing well though. I've never had toxicity problems that I'm aware of, but then, I'm using carbon. In other news, I have the trumpet frag that you were interested in. I think it's about 6-8 heads. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedude Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Carbon is really the key. I'm sure we would all be amazed at what corals can release. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeeperKeeper Posted May 14, 2006 Author Share Posted May 14, 2006 Joe, I don't think the leather is actually what was causing the problem. I was just asking about it because I thought of it as one possibility. The orange zoas were new and I think they just didn't do well in my tank for whatever reason. They did end up dying, but the big rock covered in zoas that you gave me is thriving, as are the button polyps and the little leather you gave me. When I went to check on the tank after the meeting today, I discovered something that really irritated me. As many of you know, my tank is in the waiting room of my office. Well, somebody (probably a little kid) stole the little pegs off of my light timer, so I think my lights have been on 24/7 lately. I think it's probably been going on for about a week, just because around that time I did notice that the corals didn't seem to be just opening up when I get there in the morning, and they open and close a lot during the day. So I turned off the lights when I was down there at about 5:30pm today, and I need to get to Home Depot for a timer to put on tomorrow. I needed a second one so the actinics could act as moonlights anyway, and they always come with an extra set of pegs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ACampbell Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Wow, that crazy. Good thing you noticed they were missing though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK Posted May 14, 2006 Share Posted May 14, 2006 Try going for the heavy duty digital timer fromhome depot. They're the only one's I've had luck with - and no pegs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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