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CO2 Regulator Suggestions


BornToHula

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I had been contemplating on switching from dosing pumps to a calcium reactor for a long time, so when  I saw a good deal on this 6" reactor from Aquarium Engineering I decided to bite the bullet and jump in!

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I was wondering what people use or recommend for CO2 regulators?  I've seen high reviews of the Carbon Doser (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/carbondoser-electronic-co2-regulator-aquarium-plant-life.html).  I've also seen recommendations to buy the parts and build it yourself.  I don't know much of anything about regulators so that probably isn't the best option for me.

Also, what size CO2 tank is recommended and is there a place locally to get them?  (Preferably in the Leander/North Austin area)

 

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Milwaukee is a solid brand of solenoid and pressure regulator. I use Round Rock Welding Supply for CO2. It's $11 for their cylinder exchange program. There's a place in Austin that refills same day If you want to use your own tank, but I can't remember the name right now. A 5lb tank lasts me about a year.

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Nice, I'll check out Round Rock welding supply. I'm fine with an exchange program.

I sure like the price better on that Milwaukee regulator better than the carbon doser one. A google search does bring up a lot of failures with tanks using it though.

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You basically have 3 options.

The carbon doser is hands down the best and most accurate option, but it's probably unnecessary for a CaRX.

Other 2 are single and dual stage regulators. Dual stage are significantly better and when you see suggestions on building your own, this is typically what people are suggesting building. I've done them a few times using retired O2 or CO2 medical regulators, and it then just involves changing out the input and outputs and adding a bubble counter to match the standards used with CO2 delivery. Good quality brass connectors are expensive though, so this is a way to get a top quality regulator, but you're going to pay quite a bit to get it in tank-ready condition. The specific reason they are better is they offer a consistent flow rate no matter what the bottle pressure is. Single stage regs will have a variable output depending on the bottle pressure which becomes very apparent as the bottle gets closer to empty. 

In SW, this isn't such a big issue, because you're adding CO2 very slowly and mostly confining it to your reactor, while just dripping reactor effluent into the display system. In FW planted tanks, the CO2 input can be very high, since the entire tank's PH is being lowered, not just the few gallons in a reactor. Without an electronic controller, single stage regulators are a disaster waiting to happen, and additionally will wear out a solenoid and even the wiring and house breaker quicker as the solenoid is relied on more to control CO2 instead of the bubble rate. Solenoids tend to draw a lot of power when switching so can trip GFCI's or even breakers.

As far as a budget setup, Milwaukee, Tunze, and a number of other single stage regs are all about the same in reliability. Many of the reviews are likely the solenoid and not the regulator, there's very little that can malfunction with a regulator. I found that I didn't need to run my CaRX off a PH controller, but I seriously eased into it. If you have an Apex with an extra PH port, you can automate the PH in the reactor this way. However, it can become a bit of a battle since you have to balance the flow rate as well as the CO2 rate. It's sometimes difficult to find the perfect amount, I would use a PH probe as sort of a last resort to shut off your CO2 if it gets way out of control. I wouldn't use it for CO2 switching to control ph for the same reasons listed above.

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A Google search will bring up failures on everything. If your effluent output is above the water line and the regulator fails, then the pH probe will cut power to the solenoid before it  dumps the tank. If you don't have a probe controlling the gas, then a failure would dump the whole bottle and melt more media than you'd like. That would result in super saturated effluent, spiking your dkh and lower the pH of the display. That actually happened to me about four years ago. 

Personally, I've been thinking about going back to a doser and using the Randy Holmes-Farley home mix. I haven't done it yet because dosing is more expensive than the reactor. 

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25 minutes ago, jestep said:

You basically have 3 options.

The carbon doser is hands down the best and most accurate option, but it's probably unnecessary for a CaRX.

Other 2 are single and dual stage regulators. Dual stage are significantly better and when you see suggestions on building your own, this is typically what people are suggesting building. I've done them a few times using retired O2 or CO2 medical regulators, and it then just involves changing out the input and outputs and adding a bubble counter to match the standards used with CO2 delivery. Good quality brass connectors are expensive though, so this is a way to get a top quality regulator, but you're going to pay quite a bit to get it in tank-ready condition. The specific reason they are better is they offer a consistent flow rate no matter what the bottle pressure is. Single stage regs will have a variable output depending on the bottle pressure which because very apparent as the bottle gets closer to empty. 

In SW, this isn't such a big issue, because you're adding CO2 very slowly and mostly confining it to your reactor, while just dripping reactor effluent into the display system. In FW planted tanks, the CO2 input can be very high, since the entire tank's PH is being lowered, not just the few gallons in a reactor. Without an electronic controller, single stage regulators are a disaster waiting to happen, and additionally will wear out a solenoid and even the wiring and house breaker quicker as the solenoid is relied on more to control CO2 instead of the bubble rate. Solenoids tend to draw a lot of power when switching so can trip GFCI's or even breakers.

As far as a budget setup, Milwaukee, Tunze, and a number of other single stage regs are all about the same in reliability. Many of the reviews are likely the solenoid and not the regulator, there's very little that can malfunction with a regulator. I found that I didn't need to run my CaRX off a PH controller, but I seriously eased into it. If you have an Apex with an extra PH port, you can automate the PH in the reactor this way. However, it can become a bit of a battle since you have to balance the flow rate as well as the CO2 rate. It's sometimes difficult to find the perfect amount, I would use a PH probe as sort of a last resort to shut off your CO2 if it gets way out of control. I wouldn't use it for CO2 switching to control ph for the same reasons listed above.

Thank you for the very detailed write up!  I have lots to learn about regulators and calcium reactors in general.

With a single stage regulator, is it possible to avoid an increase of CO2 output if you replace the CO2 tank before its all the way empty?

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30 minutes ago, Sascha D. said:

A Google search will bring up failures on everything. If your effluent output is above the water line and the regulator fails, then the pH probe will cut power to the solenoid before it  dumps the tank. If you don't have a probe controlling the gas, then a failure would dump the whole bottle and melt more media than you'd like. That would result in super saturated effluent, spiking your dkh and lower the pH of the display. That actually happened to me about four years ago. 

Personally, I've been thinking about going back to a doser and using the Randy Holmes-Farley home mix. I haven't done it yet because dosing is more expensive than the reactor. 

True, I guess you can find failures on anything on google.  I would have an apex monitoring the ph in the reactor so I should be able to control the solenoid as you say.

Honestly my dosers are working fine for me.  I just want to try using a calcium reactor for the Ca/Alk and using my dosing pumps to dose amino acids, potassium and other things to help coloration of corals.

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33 minutes ago, BornToHula said:

Thank you for the very detailed write up!  I have lots to learn about regulators and calcium reactors in general.

With a single stage regulator, is it possible to avoid an increase of CO2 output if you replace the CO2 tank before its all the way empty?

Yeah, figuring that out is harder that you might think though. Since CO2 is a liquid and not a gas, the pressure gauges aren't reliable for telling how much CO2 remains in the tank. I would suggest a kitchen scale and know the weight of the tank empty. When you think you're down to about .5 - 1lb of CO2 remaining, that would be a good time to plan on changing it out.

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On ‎3‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 2:17 PM, BornToHula said:

I had been contemplating on switching from dosing pumps to a calcium reactor for a long time, so when  I saw a good deal on this 6" reactor from Aquarium Engineering I decided to bite the bullet and jump in!

 

I was wondering what people use or recommend for CO2 regulators?  I've seen high reviews of the Carbon Doser (http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/carbondoser-electronic-co2-regulator-aquarium-plant-life.html).  I've also seen recommendations to buy the parts and build it yourself.  I don't know much of anything about regulators so that probably isn't the best option for me.

Also, what size CO2 tank is recommended and is there a place locally to get them?  (Preferably in the Leander/North Austin area)

 

Im looking switch too. Tell me about this deal for found!

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22 minutes ago, dshel1217 said:

Im looking switch too. Tell me about this deal for found!

Aquarium Engineering had a Facebook group deal for their 6" reactors where it was 30% off.  Not sure if it is going on still or not.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Old-ish thread but I'll toss my vote in the mix.  Ive used the milwaukee regulator and a couple dual stage custom builds.  Yes, with a PH controller you can avoid a catastrophic tank dump.  But the varying output is a real phenomena.  You could also upgrade both the solenoid and needle valve on a milwaukee as well to have more relaibility and finer bubble rate control.  The stock needle valve on the milwaukee leaves alot to be desired.  It was a headache on my FW tank and I cannot imagine trying to find a stable bubble rate with it on a calcium reactor.  It's dirt cheap, and will work in a pinch, but honestly even on a tight budget, its setbacks werent worth the money saved to me.

People like the carbon doser, but once you understand exactly what it is and how it works, you can make the decision if you think it's a good option.  Yes you can get a very stable and relaible bubble rate from it.  But at its heart it's a cheap single stage regulator with a cheap diaphragm.  It doesnt use a needle valve to control flow, rather it uses a solenoid to open and close based on it's timer setting.  I dont hear a ton of stories about failures with them, but for the price you pay, you can just as easily get a fully custom stainless steel dual stage regulator.

You just have to ask yourself if saving 100 bucks is worth having to do things like weigh your co2 canister all the time, replace them early and waste gas, or constantly be adjusting the regulator to compensate for pressure changes, also knowing that the solenoid and regulator itself aren't constructed from the best materials and may go on you at any time.  Yes, there are lemons in all walks of life, but in a commercial grade dual stage regulator, they are MUCH fewer and far between.  

To me it was just worth it to pony up a little extra and get a custom build, knowing my solenoid runs fairly cool, needle valve has ultra precise ultra fine adjustability, and that the regulator will absolutely hold a stable output pressure at all times.  It may be overkill for our purposes, but to me the benefits you get from it are absolutely worth it.  

I also didn't build either of mine.  I bought mine off the classifieds on reef central and marsh.  If there's one thing ive learned, it's that even if you don't see something actively for sale, a WTB ad will usually cause people to turn up selling items you're looking for.  With my masterflex pump, and two custom regulators, I had all three (separate incidents) arrive to me within a week of placing the WTB ad.  someone's always selling something whether theres an ad up or not.

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They're all over eBay. It's just a bit of a learning curve figuring out which ones are correct choices and the proper fittings. Lol which is why I just bought someone else's who did the work. I simply don't have time to hunt that stuff down, though if you did, it's not terribly difficult. It's really just a handful of fittings and literally all of it can be found on ebay

 

http://www.fabco-air.com/products/flow_controls/NV-55-18.html

 

I use this one on my calcium reactor regulator and absolutely love it. Though I'm not sure what fittings you would need to put it on a Milwaukee regulator.

 

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I ended up going with the carbon doser.  I did read beforehand that the parts were fairly cheap, but it seems likes the positive reviews and experience reports far outweighed the negatives reports.  

In my search I had a hard time finding any commercial made dual stage regulators that didn't completely break the bank.  For example I found this one that had great reviews, but at $625 it was too much to justify. (http://greenleafaquariums.com/products/gla-pro-1-ss-co2-regulator-two-stage.html).  I also found this one, but then read some reports that it may not be a true dual stage regulator (https://www.co2art.co.uk/collections/dual-stage-regulators/products/aquarium-co2-dual-stage-regulator-and-solenoid-magnetic-valve-smc-valve).

In the end I was tired of searching and just went with the carbon doser.

Now, if my calcium reactor would just show up...:firefirefire:

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Ah. Moot point now but you were looking for commercial regulators through aquarium hobby retailers. That's the problem. You should have been searching for brands like Matheson, Victor, Concoa, Parker, Airgas, etc. they're not aquarium
Hobby items. They're used in labs and hospitals. The co2 art and GLA regulators are hobby specific regulators that are low on quality but massively overpriced. I got my stainless steel concoa 312 with Parker needle valve and Burkert solenoid for $215 shipped, and my all brass Air Products with burkert and fabco needle valve for $200 local pickup. They'll outlast me in this hobby, and my kids would probably get some use out of them. Hence why I was saying you can get a dual stage for as cheap or cheaper than a carbon doser. I realize you already made your purchase but just sharing information for information sake. The deals I found were not unusual either.


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40 minutes ago, Bpb said:

Ah. Moot point now but you were looking for commercial regulators through aquarium hobby retailers. That's the problem. You should have been searching for brands like Matheson, Victor, Concoa, Parker, Airgas, etc. they're not aquarium
Hobby items. They're used in labs and hospitals. The co2 art and GLA regulators are hobby specific regulators that are low on quality but massively overpriced. I got my stainless steel concoa 312 with Parker needle valve and Burkert solenoid for $215 shipped, and my all brass Air Products with burkert and fabco needle valve for $200 local pickup. They'll outlast me in this hobby, and my kids would probably get some use out of them. Hence why I was saying you can get a dual stage for as cheap or cheaper than a carbon doser. I realize you already made your purchase but just sharing information for information sake. The deals I found were not unusual either.
 

 I knew that if I invested more time in looking into I could find a better regulator but I just got a little overwhelmed and tired of researching and went with the doser. Good to know of some other brands if I am looking for another one down the road.

39 minutes ago, Bpb said:

Awesome calcium reactor by the way, I hear they make some seriously nice gear
 

The build quality is definitely outstanding.  I don't think I could break it if I tried. Hope to get it running this weekend.

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1 hour ago, olaggie01 said:

I've got a 5 gallon container. I'll have to dig it out of the garage and dust it off but let me know if you would be interested.

 

 

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I managed to buy a box of it from fightinghippo yesterday. Thanks though!

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