Timfish Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I've been trading pm's with Bobbyb3 and we'll be documenting his 130 gallon mixed reef build. I'll let him add some detail but one of the main considerations that intrigued me is he wants to do it on a budget of roughly $1000. While I could set up a system for myself pretty cheap I know with the learning curve newbies have it can be a very expensive learning process establishing a reef. So hopefully as we discuss his choices we be able to provide some insights to how new systems can be set up economically. Anyway I let Bobby bring us up to speed on what he's done so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Thank you. I have always enjoyed aquariums and always wanted a reef tank. I was active military for several years so was never able to set up my own place. Now I work full time for the military and have less chance of deploying. About a year ago I wanted to start a tank of something so I started looking for a tank. I found a tank on craigslist that I thought was 150. It was more then I wanted to start with but then when I did some reading I seen that larger tanks were easier to maintain. He was asking about $130 if I remember right so that sounded good to me. He had it filled when I got there so all looked good. He also throw in stand, lights, heater, small pump, 2 buckets of gravel and 2 canister filters both that need a few things. One is an Eheim professional wet/dry and Fuval 305. I got the tank all cleaned up and moved to my garage.Since talking with you and letting me know I would need a taller stand to be able to hold a sump and do maintenance. As I work on the stand, I am going to fill it up to water test it again. Also as you suggested I picked up a 40 gallon breeder tank from Petco during their $1 per gallon to turn in to a sump. You were asking if the bottom of the display tank said do not drill and after getting it all cleaned there were no stickers. The only ones were one that said made by scottk and an All Glass Aquarium sticker. I was looking up plans for stand and think I will go with this one so the sump can fit under it with out any problems. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1169964 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 It is good news about the stickers as that means we can install an internal overflow box with plumbing going directly into the sump. If the bottom panel was tempered we could still install an internal overflow box but either a hole would have to be drilled in the side or an automatic syphon would have to be used, both of which would mean external plumping on the back of the tank which in your application would be visible from certain angles and require the tank to be moved farther from the wall. The picture of the "Made By" sticker also shows how the excellent shape internal silicone is. There was one place the silicone had been worked away a little bit but overall it was in excellent condition. Technically the silicone that's on the inside corners or edges, not between the glass panels does little for the structural integrity of a tank (some tanks do not have any) however when looking at a used tank it's condition gives a very good idea of what kind of abuse a tank has seen. I have seen tanks where it has been completely worn away and I would be hesitant to use such a tank as a display tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 This is the frame for the stand I am working on. I built most of this Monday but my son has been sick this week. This is why took so long to post and last of the frame is not together. My design again I'm using is Here is the base of 2x4s / orange and blue part the corners of 2x4s / purple parts the corner guides 2x4s / green the top 2x6s / red and yellow I seen I didn't put supports on top for the middle of the display tank frame so put them in All the pieces have been glued and screwed together. I just need to figure out what to skin it with. I am thinking some 1 bys to give it a nice look. Wife wont be happy if it doesn't look nice. I am going to put a floor on the base but since the tank has a frame should I put a floor on the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 With a glass tank that has a frame the top of the stand does not need a sheet of plywood on it. Typically glass tanks without a frame would have a layer of plywood and a sheet of styrofoam to protect the glass bottom. Acrylic tanks and tanks with PVC bottoms do need support as the bottom will bow over time which puts force on the edge joints trying to pull them apart along the inside edge. I did want to comment on the canister filters you received. Many aquarists are successful using them with saltwater. I do not like them becasue I've never meet one that didn't develop a slow drip at one time or the other and that is something that just really irritates me. They also take more time to clean out than other types of mechanical filtration and in the event of a power failure are more likely to go anaerobic and kill stuff off inside which can cause problems. But one option you might conseder since you are trying to do this on a very tight budget is to use them just for circulation or for return pumps. If used for this purpose any internal filter stuff would be removed so there would not be an issue with them clogging over time. This would also minimize the having to open them up. And we definetly need to check the heater before it's used. With your system against a north facing window it probably is a good idea to have heaters but used heaters really need to be checked by setting them in a bucket with a thermometer and monitored at different temperatures to make sure the thermostat is not sticking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Now that all the freezing weather is gone I was able to finish putting together the frame of the stand. I will probably go tomorrow to the store to get stuff to skin it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted March 14, 2015 Author Share Posted March 14, 2015 Looks like we're ready to drill some holes! We're using an internal overflow and since we're using two return pumps we'll have three holes, 1 drain and two return. The overflow can be situated anywhere but I like using the rule of thirds or Golden Ratio (1 to 1.6) to locate things and for aquascaping. In the case of the overflow we'll be putting one edge on the line 1/3rd of the way from one end. Which edge probably doesn't matter but with the cross bracing it looks like the side of the overflow box toward the middle line will be at the 1/3rd mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted April 4, 2015 Share Posted April 4, 2015 Here is the link to us drilling the tank for the overflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 The overflow is all set now I just need to do is finish skinning the stand. I did get all the boards cut to do it so hopfully get it done this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Sorry got sent for an extra week of military training right after my last post. Last we were talking about the sump set ups. I know you were pro no skimmer but you were also talking the set up we are going with is an open no baffle sump. If you could elaborate on the pros of this compared to other set ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Oooops! Sorry I got busy too! I have heard some very good reasons for having all kinds of baffles and chambers and "bubble towers". The biggest problem I have seen over the years with having baffles and chambers sectioning off the sump/refugium is the need for frequent replenishmant or an automatic top off system. There's no problem with either of those options so long as there is always time to remember to add water or space for a top off tank and the added equipment. But both of those options do add either additional cost or more frequent labor or both. I have found over the years that flucutatuions in volume of 10% does not have any adverse effect on fish and corals. I have also found over the years anything that you can do to reduce the impact of equipment failure and human error increases the odds of long term success. This gradually over time led to using a system design that lets me do water changes without having to turn off pumps and to prefer two smaller return pumps to one larger pump. It also has led to using a sump/refugium that does not require topping off for 10 - 15 days, easily allowing for weekly water changes to correct salinity and usually eliminating the need for some inexperienced indivudual needed to do something during a vacation. Also, chambers are often designed to include mechanical filtration, I have not bothered with filter pads in a very long time but after reading the research showing the importance of calcium and magnesium crystals in fish poop to the carbonate cycle in oceans I would consider designing a sump to include mechanical filtration as detrimental. Surprisingly one of my systems that just uses just an unlit sump had turkey wing clams successfully breed so I'm pretty sure simple will work very well: http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/20436-what-the-what-are-the-odds/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted May 2, 2015 Author Share Posted May 2, 2015 Here's a quick video I took of the system that had the clams reproduce: Since then I've added Acropora tortusa, A. valida, A echinata and Seratopra hystrex and fungia polyps which are all doing well. Pictures of the A. tortusa and A. echinata can be seen here: http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/33888-in-tank-treatment-of-stn-on-a-echinata-with-lugals-iodine/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Sorry took so long to get back. I got back from training and started working on skinning the stand. I realized that I left the board a little long till I got the frame done. I went out that weekend to dinner with my family and had some one wreck in to us. I have been battle with the insurance since then. Finally got it all fixed and back to work on the build. I told you last I would start outlining the cost. Remember I said since I bought the tank so long ago I am not counting it even though it only cost me $150 I think from a guy on CL. Stand $150 overflow $100 Can you outline all the pieces of pipes and sizes I will need again so I can get them ordered? And the club sponsor that would b best for all the pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Sorry to hear about your accident! Glad you and your family didn't have any serious injuries! Plumping will be pretty simple. All can be 1" and any home improvement store will be the cheapest place to get it. We can use lock line for the return nozzles but regular PVC fittings will be cheaper. 1/2" or 3/4" plumping can be used for some of the return lines but using 1" will increase flow a bit by reducing back pressure. Another consideration is using the 45 and 90 degree PVC "sweeps" made for electrical uses will reduce the back pressure that's caused by elbows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 Got the side panels all built and floor done. I will try to get some pics up to show you. I will start staining it so we can start setting everything up. I will keep working on the door as we get the tank set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Sorry for the delay had some family health stuff going on back in SC and had to go home for a while. Everyone is fine now just had some bad scares. If my time ran out I understand. I know that for mentor program have to post one a month but I will still more forward ether way. Yesterday got the sides and the front bottom for the skin put on. Tonight I will be putting the front sides and front top skin on. I will also start trimming out the floors to fit around the supports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Here is the pics that I took from getting the rest of the skin put on. The front top rail came out an 1/8 taller so on the hunt for a 2 inches solid item to use as a guide to take it down to the right height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted October 20, 2015 Share Posted October 20, 2015 Hope you have just been busy as well. I have been moving along. Got the floor put in it. Stained, cleared and some white paint to add a extra layer of seal to the floor. Then after everything was completely done drying and hardening was moved into its new home. I just need to find some one to help me get the tank up on it and I will be ready to start running lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 Well everyone has been busy with preping for the holidays so I had to just figure a way to do it alone. My wife helped slide it on the stand at the end though. Tim I really need your help now cause we never fully talked about the layout of the sump. I know you said 1 drain, 2 returns and no sections. Can you show me what design I am doing with the lines and what return pumps I need? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hey, Sorry I've been busy and didn't keep up with you!!! I'll holler at you to get together to hook up the plumbing but for the pumps I would get two of Danners Mag 5 pumps. Two of any pump that pushes about 400-500 gph will be good however. The drain line it should go straight down with a 45 elbow set to direct the water across the back to creat a circular flow in the sump. The pumps really don't matter where they are set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Just making sure this is the correct one. http://premiumaquatics.com/products/danner-magdrive-supreme-5-500-gph-water-pump-02515.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 Yup, that's my preffered pump for most applications. With the pressure head and back pressure in the plumping you'll probably have about 300-400 gph from each pump to your display tank. Figure a turnover rate of roughly 5X or 6X per hour. Some advocate having much higher flow rates but sumps and refugiums will be fine with much lower flow rates and even just one or turnovers an hour will work. This also gives you redundancy and your sytem will operate fine with just one pump running. As far as the flow rates corals want that is highly variable and depends on the species. Many species that are aquacultured are adaptable and many species are found in lagoons and may in fact see very low flow rates in the wild. Power heads and wavemakers are really a much better choice for creating the flow these animals as they do not need nearly as much current (read as "heating the tank") and are much more flexable in locating them and hiding them in the aquarium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 OK just placed the order for the 2 pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbyb3 Posted November 19, 2015 Share Posted November 19, 2015 The pumps just came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Great! We have several options on how to proceed. We can finish up plumbing up the tank, or we can mess with the aquascaping with the dry base rock we'll be using or we can mess with your quarintine system and start quarantining stuff while we do the plumbing and aquascaping. We do want to use some quality live rock and it needs to be quarantined ("cured") also before it goes into your display tank. One way to do this is to use your sump tank as the quarantine tank the live rock while we set up the quarantine tank for your livestock. We could finish up the plumping and dry aquscaping while the live rock is in quarantine then just add live sand and water to your display tank when it's finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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