FarmerTy Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The Wardlaw 120 is looking for a reboot after a crash over the holidays that set him back. He has agreed to be part of the mentor program as we first try to diagnose what happened and how to avoid it in the future. He already knows about the grueling testing regiment to come, the hours of posting pictures of his tank, the required video updates with crazy music, and the poking and prodding that will ensue on his tank and has willingly signed on for the program. I'll let Wardlaw speak for himself to catch us up on his tank up to that point, what happened during the crash, and then how he wants to proceed forward with his ideal goals for the tank he would like to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 Reserved for Wardlaw to tell us a little about his tank, his goals, and an update on the crash. So as Ty mentioned, I had a crash occur over the holidays. I believe it began with the death of the large carpet nem you can see in the center of the FTS. This fella became unhappy and crawled into the rock wall. I was unable to remove him. I then noticed my pink cuc bit the dust. I removed him promptly, but he probably died at least 24 hours prior to my discovering him. I had been dosing carbonate through my ATO. I used visual cues from the corals in order to decide how much I would or would not add. The deaths described above occurred when our home filled with relatives for the holiday. With the Christmas tree and entertaining at the forefront, the tank took a backseat. The bubble tips were next along with every other coral until nothing remained but closed and melting/flaking polyps. Ty and I have determined that the most likely cause of death was a crazy high Alkalinity. I have performed two water changes in the last 30 days and am just now in a range that the Hanna checker can register. Without anything taking up the Alkalinity, the new challenge is to lower the rate slowly via water change. The end goal is the same as the reason I set the tank up. I would like to have a very diverse reef that mimics the display tank at Aquadome. I want to be able to support the life of many differing fish, coral, and other various inverts. Current parameters: Temp-79.6 via apex Sal-1.024 via refractometer Alk- 268ppm PO4- undetectible via hanna I will test for Ca and Mg when I get the Alk to a more appropriate range and have completed the next water change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 before crash dated 6.18.14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 after crash dated 2.6.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 This past Wednesday, I had the pleasure of feasting my eyes on the Wardlaw 120. Wardlaw has a great setup in the front room that's perfect for saltwater reef tank oogling. He ran me through the history of the tank and what may have led to the tank crash. We believe to have pinpointed it down to an overdose of alk in his ATO causing alk levels to skyrocket in his tank. Both of our hanna meters topped out at 300 ppm (16.8 dKh). Wow! Here's the suite of tests I ran on his water and the results: Salinity - 1.024 (Milwaukee Digital Refractometer) Alk - >16.8 dKh (Hanna Meter) Ca - 120 ppm (Red Sea) Mg - 1,120 ppm (Red Sea) PO4 - 0.04 ppm (Hanna ultra low phosphorus meter) NO3 - >64 ppm (Red Sea) Basically, the alk overdose wiped out a majority of his corals. Luckily the fish survived and a couple of zoas. The calcium most likely precipitated out and ended at a super low concentration of 120 ppm. He continued to run GFO the entire time so his phosphate levels stayed pretty reasonable but nitrates have shot up significantly with the coral die off. We also took a look at his RO/DI system and all of his filters and DI cartridge needed to be replaced. It was probably not there yet but would have started to add nutrients into the tank if it didn't get replaced soon. So the strategy we discussed was to do some large volume water changes to get his alk back down and his calcium more in line. He's ordered some new filters for the RO/DI and they are on their way but the more pressing issue is the super low Ca and the super high alk, so in this scenario, not waiting for the new filters and doing the water changes now seems more logical. Once levels are closer to NSW levels, we can probably use 2-part to tweak the levels just right. Wardlaw has mentioned he is more interested in setting up the system for the long-term and plans to get a CaRX to supplement his foundation elements. For nutrients, he already has the GFO online and we haven't discussed how to maintain nitrate levels <5ppm just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 17, 2015 Share Posted February 17, 2015 I know most people don't get excited about gsp or other star polyps, but for those of you who have been looking for life after a crash, I HAVE POLYP FORMATION! !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 17, 2015 Author Share Posted February 17, 2015 Can't kill them even if you tried! [emoji57] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 As per the plan to have my water be as low in Alk as possible, Ty and I decided we would add water to salt mix and leave a highly concentrated mix in an effort to have the Alk precipitate. I am using red sea pro and it is higher than some in ca and Alk. The results are in......it's still at a dkh of 9. Perhaps I didn't do as well as I thought, or this batch may just be "hot" some of the corralline is beginning to regain color. Do you think this will help in lowering my Alk Ty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Devils hand attempting to make a comeback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/18/9fc6e8e264b2d0f56b37e03c8e3e5b4a.jpg[/img Arrow shows gsp poly re-emergence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Well I was hoping the alk would be even lower when mixed super concentrated but it looks like only some of it precipitated out. When I used to use Red Sea Coral Pro, I would sometimes get 11 dKh from the salt so at least you might have did a little damage getting 9 dKh. I did a little research and looks like we may be able to lower the alkalinity of the water by mixing in muriatic acid to it. I am hesitant to have you do that to the display tank. Mainly because you have livestock in it (even though others have done it with ill effect) but also because I've never applied that technique myself and as much as I like to experiment, I like the potential downfalls to only affect me. That way I only have myself to blame and be mad at. Let's apply that technique to your new saltwater though and see how low we can take the alk levels since there is little repercussion if it is not as effective as we were hoping. Next time you mix up new saltwater, measure the dKh and let me know what it's at. We can then calculate how much muriatic acid we will need to add to it to lower the dKh in the new saltwater. That's a good sign that the corraline is growing back but it's going to take a whole army of it to lower that alk as much as we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I still have the water in the mixing station. I can pick up the acid tomorrow and add as instructed if you let me know how much is necessary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Oh great, so it's at 9 dKh right now. Let me do a quick calculation and see how much muriatic is needed to lower it X amount. I think we'll have little repercussion bringing down the alk quicker than the recommended 1.5 dKh/day since there aren't many corals left and there's only your fish in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 How many gallons is the mixing station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 There are approximately 35 gal at the appropriate salinity right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Alright, forgive me if I explain this poorly or my calculation is off since it's been almost 3 years since my scientist days. First off, the formula and sourced values are from Randy Farley-Holmes. I like to give credit where it's due and to make sure people don't think I just whip out chemical computations out of nowhere. First off, Randy stated that the concentration of straight muriatic is 1/11,000 meq/L. So if we used a volume of 1/11,000 of the acid, it will drop the alk by 1 meq/L, which happens to be 2.8 dKH. Your new mix water is currently at 9KH and I was thinking of dropping it down to 3 dKH, to more rapidly lower the alk in your tank water as we really don't even know what it is since it topped out both our Hanna meters (as I think of it, if you're curious of the actual concentration, take 5mL of tank water and 5mL of RO/DI water and run it in the Hanna meter, then double the result to see what you really have in there). So, we are essentially aiming to lower your dKh of the new saltwater down 6 dKH. 6dKH of 2.8 dKH = 2.1 times the amount 2.1 times the amount of 1/11,000 = 1/5,100th of water volume You have 35 gallons of new saltwater, which is approximately 132.5 liters (units folks... it'll kill a calculation everytime!) So we basically want 1/5,100th of 132.5 liters = 0.02598 liters x 1L/1000ml (convert to mL) = 25.98mL So if I calculated everything correctly, we are needing to add basically 26mL of straight muriatic acid to the new saltwater to bring it down from 9 dKH to 3 dKH. Randy made it a good point to do half the concentration first and see if it goes in the right direction, so maybe add 13mL and see if it gets your to 6 dKH and if so, add the other 13mL to bring it down to 3 dKH. He also made a good point to aerate the water, perhaps overnight, so that you bring the pH of the water back up as it will depress with the lowering of the alk levels. As with anytime you work with a caustic acid, I'd recommend nitrile gloves if you have them and safety googles. Safety first! I'd also do it in a ventilated space (if in your garage, perhaps open your garage door while doing this). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 WOW!! I am glad I entered the mentor program. I will purchase the acid tomorrow and be sure to use all necessary PPE. Before doing anything I will test the aquarium levels and the mixing station levels. I'm sure I will also include at least one reassurance call to the great scientist mentor Ty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 19, 2015 Author Share Posted February 19, 2015 Don't go singing my praises yet. This is all still theoretical until we start seeing the acid in the mixing station and the alk start dropping. You can then call me at that time and we can both throw out a good maniacal evil scientist laugh together! With me now..... muahahaahhaa! [emoji436] [emoji23] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 13ml in. Maybe no biggie for you science types, but a little eerie for the horticultural types.....more tests...more chem....then another big h20 change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 BRS order in.....now if we can just get to the starting point I'll be donating my paychecks to you with frag tanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 20, 2015 Author Share Posted February 20, 2015 Did you get a free BRS mad scientist lab coat with your purchase? It's sad but I could tell exactly what you ordered from the picture alone without any of the labels. [emoji58] I need to get another hobby! So, preliminarily, I know that Wardlaw, after adding half the amount of muriatic acid to the new saltwater, was able to get it down to 7.2 dKh from 9dKh. I was hoping to get 6 dKh but maybe I didn't carry the 1 or something. I'm pretty sure it was Wardlaw's fault by measuring the 13 mL incorrectly or estimating the 35 gallon volume incorrectly... you know... since I'm the mentor and I'm always right. [emoji5] Surely it wasn't me! [emoji16] Anyhoo, we know now that 13mL of muriatic acid will lower his mixing bucket of new saltwater down 1.8 dKh. I say let's just aim for 5 dKh for the new saltwater and call it a day... so add roughly 16 ml of muriatic to the new saltwater, aerate it for a little bit, retest to confirm, and then do your water change. He also informed me that he tested his tank water and it's currently sitting at 15.3 dKh. We can see after the water change what your resultant alk level is after swapping 35 gallons of 5 dKh water for 15.3 dKh. I'm sure that's just a simple calculation but I cap myself at one calculation per week per mentor thread. [emoji4] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Longest water change prep in history!!! The 16ml of acid were added yesterday. The new dkh.......6.8. @$!# anyway Ty and I decided to go through with the change. Display is still sitting at 15.06dkh. I will update with test numbers tomorrow after the change has had a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 That's so odd the the 2nd addition of 16 ml only equated in a 0.4 dKh drop. Did you happen to measure the dKh before adding the 16 ml of muriatic acid? I wonder if bubbling it for 2-3 days had any effect on it. Or perhaps we hit some type of saturation point? Or more likely, I just need to stick to my day job. [emoji16] I'm curious as to how much the water change helped out your alk numbers. Looking forward to the test result today! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardlaw Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Noon test results Alk 12.77 CA 492 MG 1400 Sal 1.025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Nice! So we had a drop of about 2.53 dKh. At this rate, I'd imagine two more water changes should do it. Did you dose your Calcium and Magnesium up as well or was that the result from just the water change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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