How should I cycle my tank w/out a protein skimmer?

[YeetPopper]

How should I go about cycling my tank without a skimmer? I read somewhere that without a skimmer, a water change will be necessary when you are trying to cycle your tank. Is this true? So far all I have in my sump is a filter sock, heater, foam, and a pump to push the water back up. Oh yeah is there anything I can do about my water being cloudy from the sand or should it clear up in a few days? I am going to put in live rock as soon as I am finished filling up the tank with water. Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,

Jarrett

Attachments_20141228.zip

[Jimbo662]

Most people cycle without a skimmer and don't do any water changes until the very end of the cycle. Water will clear after a couple of days.

[ckyuv]

Your fine on the cycle without a slimmer. personally i would take the foam out of the sump as this will cause nitrates later on down the road. make sure the water is flowing through the filter sock, if it's coming out the top, you can wash it and it will start catching dust again. Other than that the cloudiness will settle.

[YeetPopper]

Your fine on the cycle without a slimmer. personally i would take the foam out of the sump as this will cause nitrates later on down the road. make sure the water is flowing through the filter sock, if it's coming out the top, you can wash it and it will start catching dust again. Other than that the cloudiness will settle.

Thanks, I was thinking about removing the foam right after I get the live rock in. Is there anything you suggest I should add to the sump besides the protein skimmer? Currently I have the filter sock, heater, and the temporary foam.

[Jimbo662]

I put live rock rubble in my sump just for extra filtration.

[Timfish]

Rubble is good. Read up on Tyree's zonal system, it uses cryptic areas (unlit) in a sump/refugium to help create a more diverse ecosystem. Skimmers do not help establish the nitrifying bacteria so cycling is the same either way. The nitrifying cycle is much, much more complex with reefs than with a fish only system or with freshwater. Delbeck and Sprung chart it on pg 255 of Vol III of their "Reef Aquarium" series (in light of some of the research looking at the coral holobiont enabling corals to utilize ammonium, nitrite, nitrate as well as converting free nitrogen into nitrate even this chart could be considered an oversimplification).

[YeetPopper]

I put live rock rubble in my sump just for extra filtration.

Did you put it in your refugium area, because my sump isn't compatible with a refugium (E-shopps rs-100)

[Jimbo662]

I built some acrylic boxes that I referred to as "pod condos". This pic shows the original I made of egg crate and the new one I made of acrylic.

[YeetPopper]

I built some acrylic boxes that I referred to as "pod condos". This pic shows the original I made of egg crate and the new one I made of acrylic.

Thanks for sharing! That's a convenient way to store the rubble.

[Sascha D.]

Without a skimmer and without water changes, the ammonia will build up and kill almost everything on the rocks you are trying to cycle. The reason someone wouldn't run a skimmer is because they don't care about keeping anything on the uncured rock. Keeping your lights off for the curing cycle will limit the algae from the excessive amount of phosphates resulting from everything rotting away.

[YeetPopper]

Without a skimmer and without water changes, the ammonia will build up and kill almost everything on the rocks you are trying to cycle. The reason someone wouldn't run a skimmer is because they don't care about keeping anything on the uncured rock. Keeping your lights off for the curing cycle will limit the algae from the excessive amount of phosphates resulting from everything rotting away.

So I should do water changes? How much each week?

[Sascha D.]

Well it depends on what your goal is. Many things will survive the curing process even if you don't do any water changes. Delicate things like corals and some inverts will die when ammonia and nitrates elevate. The length of time of the cycle largely depends on what kind of rock you used and how much decaying matter is on the rocks. Uncured rock takes the longest to cycle because things on the rock die in transit.

Someone else recently asked a similar question about cycling in another thread here.

[Bpb]

+1 to Sascha bigtime on depends what your goals are in curing. The classic idea is to use mature live rock, full of diversity, taking the good with the bad. In that case, cycling would be minimal and you will want to treat your rocks as if they are a living organism in the tank (which they essentially are!).

A more modern approach (my preference personally) is to start with as clean of rock as possible. When I did my most recent build I started with 75 pounds or so of dry rock, which I bleach soaked for days, and dipped in muriatic acid before curing. What was left was completely intert, bright white calcium carbonate rock. Zero organic matter at all on it. You forego a ton of diversity, and cycling takes much longer, but you also have no concern for pests at all. Adding a bit of mature rock seeds the sponge/worm/pod population that eventually will colonize the brand new rock.

In the second case. Curing in the dark with no skimmer and a lot of ammonia will simply build bacterial colonies in the rock. Once you add it to the tank it'll appear sterile and lifeless but will be able to process ammonia to nitrate. As the months pass, life will build up on the rock as the tank matures.

Doing the dry rock method for me really made the nitrate and phosphate buildup for me a complete non-issue. I have to dose phosphate in my tank periodically to keep it from being too low. The downside is the lack of biological diversity makes it slow going in the maturation process, and I lost a lot of corals in the first several months of the build which I attribute directly to that

[Sascha D.]

Excellent account Bpb. First hand experience like that is invaluable.

Starting with a completely clean slate takes time. Much more time than most people are willing to endure. I have cycled tanks using every method. My current tank started with clean rock that had been sitting in storage for two years. It took a good six months to build up enough biodiversity to support corals. I believe dry rock is the best option, but is not for everyone.

Unfortunately, I ruined it with one rock from RCA that had aiptasia, bubble algae and all sorts of problems hiding in it. That was the last time I ever purchased LR from a store. Over a year later and I'm still removing garbage that shouldn't have been there in the first place. Looking back I would have done nearly everything the same way except that one rock. Oh and the Caulerpa was a bad idea as well. LOL! Hindsight is always 20/20

[Sascha D.]

I searched some of my old posts and found this description of live rock options that may be helpful. The thread can be found here. Post #15 is pretty wild!

Live rock isn't harvested from ocean reefs anymore. Live rock is sort of farmed by commercial organizations. They deposit dry rock in the ocean, allow it to become colonized and then they harvest it. Many people use dry rock or create their own rocks out of cement and other such materials. In a year or two you won't even be able to tell what kind of rock it used to be.

There are pros and cons to each type of rock out there. For you, I would only consider three types of rock.

• Uncured Live Rock - Uncured LR is really interesting especially for new people to the hobby. It comes in with all sorts of critters and things on it that make the first aquarium very fun. Every day you'll see something new crawling or growing out of the rock. It's cheaper than cured live rock. However, uncured LR takes more work because you have to cure it and identify possible bad critters that you don't want. You also have to wait for the chemistry to settle before you can start adding stuff. It sells for about $3 per pound on live aquaria.
• Dry Rock - Dry rock is good because it's the cheapest option. It also gives you the most control over your aquarium. Nothing will be alive on your rock when it arrives, so the only things in your tank will be what you put in there yourself. This is good because you don't have to worry about catching any pests, but it's not as fun as discovering new things like uncured rock. You'll also need to wait 3-6 months for your rock to grow stuff on it. I waited two months before adding anything to my tank. I would also suggest buying a bottle of bacteria. It sells for about $2 per pound on reefcleaners.org
• Live Rock from Peers - Getting your live rock from your peers is another good option. It's sort of like recycling and you don't have to worry about where your rock has come from or what it has on it. You'll discover a small amount of stuff that will come with your rock like snails, crabs, or stars. However, it may come with pests depending on who you get it from. It's common to see tanks covered in hair algae and such. The best thing about live rock from your peers is that you can add fish and corals right away. The price is normally around $2-3 per pound.

[YeetPopper]

I searched some of my old posts and found this description of live rock options that may be helpful. The thread can be found here. Post #15 is pretty wild!

Live rock isn't harvested from ocean reefs anymore. Live rock is sort of farmed by commercial organizations. They deposit dry rock in the ocean, allow it to become colonized and then they harvest it. Many people use dry rock or create their own rocks out of cement and other such materials. In a year or two you won't even be able to tell what kind of rock it used to be.

There are pros and cons to each type of rock out there. For you, I would only consider three types of rock.

• Uncured Live Rock - Uncured LR is really interesting especially for new people to the hobby. It comes in with all sorts of critters and things on it that make the first aquarium very fun. Every day you'll see something new crawling or growing out of the rock. It's cheaper than cured live rock. However, uncured LR takes more work because you have to cure it and identify possible bad critters that you don't want. You also have to wait for the chemistry to settle before you can start adding stuff. It sells for about $3 per pound on live aquaria.
• Dry Rock - Dry rock is good because it's the cheapest option. It also gives you the most control over your aquarium. Nothing will be alive on your rock when it arrives, so the only things in your tank will be what you put in there yourself. This is good because you don't have to worry about catching any pests, but it's not as fun as discovering new things like uncured rock. You'll also need to wait 3-6 months for your rock to grow stuff on it. I waited two months before adding anything to my tank. I would also suggest buying a bottle of bacteria. It sells for about $2 per pound on reefcleaners.org
• Live Rock from Peers - Getting your live rock from your peers is another good option. It's sort of like recycling and you don't have to worry about where your rock has come from or what it has on it. You'll discover a small amount of stuff that will come with your rock like snails, crabs, or stars. However, it may come with pests depending on who you get it from. It's common to see tanks covered in hair algae and such. The best thing about live rock from your peers is that you can add fish and corals right away. The price is normally around $2-3 per pound.

Wow thanks! I think I'm going to get a skimmer. I forgot to mention, I do not have any lights above the tank. Are lights necessary for live rock to survive?

[Sascha D.]

Lights are not necessary for the bacteria in the live rock to survive, only the photosynthetic critters that live on the rock.

Remember, you don't "need" a skimmer to be successful. Read up on it and make a decision that best suits your style and personality.