Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Hi, I live in San Marcos and have a 14g freshwater biocube that I am planning on converting to saltwater; I was hoping I could get some advice here. So I will be posting again soon. My plans for it, after it has been cycled of course, are to start with a few mexican turbo or nerite snails and 1 or 2 shrimp, bring in some emerald crabs then eventually an anemone and a pair of clowns. Not to mention corals because I still have no idea what I want when it comes to them. What are yall's thoughts on over crowding? I would be wiling to make an additional 5 gal sump to hide in my stand if yall think it could be too much life for a 14g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Welcome to ARC. A small pair of clowns like Ocellarius should be fine in your 14G tank. What kind of shrimp did you have in mind? Does your biocube have compartments in the back? For such a small tank a sump can be an unnecessary expense. If you manage your food in and limit your bioload, IMO, a sump is unnecessary. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 I haven't started looking into the type of shrimp I wanted yet because it will still be a while until my water is ready for one. Yes though, my biocube does have 3 compartments in the back; one with filter, the other with bioballs and the last has the actual pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 welcome. i started last july and still feel like i'm fairly new. when it comes to advice i basically regurgitate what i here elsewhere. what have you used to start your cycle? since a lot of our filters live in the sand and rock, it is a good idea to try to get some from an established tank. i got sand from three different people to try to get more variety of worms and such. the main difference i have found between freshwater and saltwater (aside from salt, clearly) is that saltwater build much more of an ecosystem than freshwater does. breaking down of wastes is done by lots of different types of worms, snails, grabs, etc. much moreso than the primarily mechanical and bacterial in freshwater. it is still odd to me when i think about it, but i really have no mechanical filtration on my 40g tank at all. look around the forums. the biocubes are very popular and plenty of people are running them and can offer advice on equipment that will fit and mods that will be required for them to do so. but your your equipment will depend on what corals you plan to grow and what sort of maintaner you want to be. there are many methods and people on here that use all of them. figure out the effort you want to put into maintenance and pick your mentors . finally, start a build thread now. people will read along and offer all kinds of advice along the way. it helps keep you from making a mistake at the start. the only purchases i have regretted are ones i did not seek advise for first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Great advice. Thank you! I'll start one right now as a matter of fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Welcome to ARC. A small pair of clowns like Ocellarius should be fine in your 14G tank. What kind of shrimp did you have in mind? Does your biocube have compartments in the back? For such a small tank a sump can be an unnecessary expense. If you manage your food in and limit your bioload, IMO, a sump is unnecessary. Patrick To answer your question on the shrimp I have been thinking of is a Sclarett Skunk, my friend has one at its a lot of fun to watch. But like I said, it's a while off so I havent done much research yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 Welcome to ARC. A small pair of clowns like Ocellarius should be fine in your 14G tank. What kind of shrimp did you have in mind? Does your biocube have compartments in the back? For such a small tank a sump can be an unnecessary expense. If you manage your food in and limit your bioload, IMO, a sump is unnecessary. Patrick To answer your question on the shrimp I have been thinking of is a Sclarett Skunk, my friend has one at its a lot of fun to watch. But like I said, it's a while off so I havent done much research yet. it's funny. my initial plan was to set up an invert only tank because i love the crabs and shrimps and all. my tank is in its third trimester and i have one pistol shrimp and may have a pom-pom crab (not counting clean up crew), but i haven't seen him in months. why? different reasons, but the main one is that i haven't taken the time to research which are and aren't reef safe. if you read on here, it seems that someone has had one ______ shrimp/crab that has wrecked ________ coral. at some point we just gotta play the odds. but, this is your welcome thread, so i'll stop talking about me . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 By disappeared and not being reef safe. Do you mean it burrowed into the coral? I've actually seen a lot about crabs disappearing because they weren't reef safe on these forums I just don't understand how they can disappear AND still be destructive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 by disappeared i mean he is either hiding in the rock and only comes out in the dark where i can't see him or he is dead. you basically set up your rock with lots of nooks and crannies and they can hide really well. sometimes people will "disappear" the not reef safe ones, but that is not what i was meaning. pom-pom crabs are not likely to hurt any body/thing in your tank. sure, their anenomies sting, but they are so tiny it is doubtful they have enough poison to take out a fish or coral. addendum: reef safe is basically whether or not they will attack your coral/livestock in some way. so will eat your fish, eat your coral, or steel food straight from their stomachs. some only attack certain types of things, some may attack when hungry...etc. so there are variations on reef safeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 4, 2014 Author Share Posted February 4, 2014 Great! I am feeling a lot more confident about undertaking this conversion; although I will definitely miss my yellow lab, clown loach and plants. I will will post more as soon as the project is underway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 4, 2014 Share Posted February 4, 2014 If you like reading, the reef aquarium volume 3 by dr. Someone starting with an s is a great book to pick up. Dr. Sprung, shrub, shroom, something like that. Under the reference tab there's a list if good books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nvrEnuf Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 HI Gonzo welcome to the forum! Is that Gonzo the character, or author? As to your biocube I run a 29 myself and agree with Patrick as usual. I would recommend removing your bioballs and replacing with live rock "rubble" (which are small chunks of live rock great for filtering your system and using as plugs to frag on later). I also think you should consider either a skimmer or start researching marco algae you might keep in your display to assist in nutrient removal. Macros are a two sided coin in that you want fast growing ones for nutrient export, but fast growing ones can become "invasive" depending on your definition. Thridly, you might consider the oceanic UV filter since your unit is too small (IMO) for carbon to be effective. They aren't the same and do different things, but they both affect water clarity. Plus, while a 14 gallon all in one system should handle the bioload of two clowns...they might be a bit cramped from an overall biotope sense...the UV will help keep parasites down. Lastly I advise to measure your evaporation daily. I have found much hapier systems whem I monitor the smaller systems more often. Example: My 20 gal QT gets water twise a day, but my 20 gal QT gets water every other day...because that's how long it takes for a .005 difference in salitny to take place. ~Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 It's Gonzo a play on my last name that no one can pronounce. I was planning on macro algae, chaeto, that I was going to put in the sump that has the bioballs or LRR. I don't think I have room for a clunky UV filter in this little guy but I didn't think about carbon being ineffective. Why do you think it wouldn't work? And thank you for the greetings. Happy to be here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I don't get the ineffective carbon thing, either. Maybe it's because people may just toss it in a filter sock and in the sump. If that is a concern a guy on the forums (chip Walters) was selling some 3D printed carbon reactors made from a Gatorade bottle. You can look for hat. It may fit in yours somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Welcome The biggest part of this hobby is finding a way of doing things that suits you. Most people can give you advice all day, only to find that you don't get the same results as they got, from doing the same thing. You'll often hear the word "rule" thrown around a lot in this hobby. Unlike like the Laws of Physics, reefing rules only refer to what will happen the majority of the time. Methods change all the time, but that doesn't mean your old stuff is bad. When I first started, wet dry filters were the way to go and now bioballs are nearly exinct with serious hobbiest. Here are a few things I've learned when I first went SW. Over the years I've set up many tanks. I've used dry rock, cured rock and uncured rock. They're all distinctly different experiences with pros and cons but that doesn't mean one is better than the others. I can tell you that all drains lead to the ocean with a little patience. If you add snails or hermits before month three, then they will starve. It's a waste of money. Just clean the glass. One snail / hermit crab per gallon is a marketing tool. Anyone who tells you to buy 30 snails for your 29 biocube just wants your money. One exception to this rule is the Dwarf Cerith snails. They're pretty tiny and you could add 30 to a 29 biocube pretty easily if you're growing enough algae for them to eat. No tank under 55g is suitable for a tang. I don't care how big it is when you buy it. They grow. You never buy a dog house for a puppy, you buy it for the dog. Remember your 29 biocube holds 29 gallons of water when it's empty. After you add sand and rocks, you no longer have 29 gallons of water. Saltwater fish are not like Freshwater fish. If you buy a FW fish from South America, then you know how it will act, what it will eat and it's breeding habits. SW fish will eat to survive even if it's not their main diet. Tangs are herbivores, but drop some mysis in there and see if it hits the ground. Dwarf angels are known to eat soft corals when they get hungry, but I've kept six species over 13 years and I've never had a problem. Not all fish conform to the species standard. Stay away from turbo snails. Many fall down, can't right themselves and die. Instead, buy Cerith snails. They're cheaper, they'll breed in your aquarium and they do a good job. Crabs will eat whatever they can find when they are hungry. They will kill and eat your snails, worms, corals and even other crabs. I'm not saying that they will turn your tank into a buffet, but you should be prepared for the potential of something disappearing. Hermits can't grow their own shells, so they kill snails and take their shells. Hermits will also kill each other for their shells. It's a hard lesson to watch $100 of hermits turn into empty shells on your sand bed. Having said that, they are good cleaners but I don't use them. Refugiums cannot replace your skimmer. To get enough nutrient export out of your refugium, it would have to be as large as your display. I added a 40g refugium to my 150g and had hardcore cyanobacteria for months. I added a skimmer and it was gone within a week. Know what you want before you buy it. I see many people buy corals that spread too fast, or fish that fight with each other. I've done it before and it's not fun. Lastly, know your chemistry before you add any supplements. Blindly dosing is a waste of money and can lead to harmful buildup of minerals. My coworker told me she's been doing water changes, adding calcium, and adding iodine every week for five years. I said, "Wow you must have a lot of hard corals going through that Ca huh?" She said, "What's a hard coral?" I said . The Clean Up Crew is a guide that I like to refer to before buying inverts. There's also a small guide on starting a new tank at the bottom. Reef Cleaners has the cheapest prices on cleaners. Reef Chemistry - I suggest reading all parts 1-4. It's a lot to take in, but save it as a reference. Live Rock and how it works Sandbeds and how they work Marine Plant Book - A great resource to learn about plants, how to take care of them, and some pictures. When I first started nobody kept macroalgae, but now many people are experimenting with it. If interested, this can get you started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Great information Sascha I wish you had posted that when I started back in 2003. Welcome to the club Gonzo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Great write up Sascha. We should pin that in the beginner section somewhere. I'm not sure I agree with 8. I've got a 10g with some C. Prolifera and G. Hayi that has no skimmer, no nitrates, and no phosphates. No water changes just the macro and a small HOB filter with some canister media to replace the charcoal filters that come with it. Note: this tank has no fish, a few corals, a modest CUC (clean up crew). But I feed it every day or two, mostly for the CUC. I have a feeling I over feed it, but it is hard to tell how much food is left over since hermits and snails are not fast eaters. In other words, like most of it...it's how you set it up, stock it, and care for it. So stick with the no "rules" part and find something that fits your style. Then make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I just do the opposite of what Sascha tells me and the tank has been awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 I just do the opposite of what Sascha tells me and the tank has been awesome! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Great write up Sascha. We should pin that in the beginner section somewhere. I'm not sure I agree with 8. I've got a 10g with some C. Prolifera and G. Hayi that has no skimmer, no nitrates, and no phosphates. No water changes just the macro and a small HOB filter with some canister media to replace the charcoal filters that come with it. Note: this tank has no fish, a few corals, a modest CUC (clean up crew). But I feed it every day or two, mostly for the CUC. I have a feeling I over feed it, but it is hard to tell how much food is left over since hermits and snails are not fast eaters. In other words, like most of it...it's how you set it up, stock it, and care for it. So stick with the no "rules" part and find something that fits your style. Then make it work. Haha Dennis. Number 8 says a refugium will not replace a skimmer. First you have to have need of a skimmer! Depending on the amount of algae you have, that could account for the low PO4 reading as well. For Gonzo's sake I'll clarify. Protein skimmers remove dissolved organic compounds by injecting air into the water. The waste is more dense than air and so it rides the bubbles to the top...in a very simplified sort of way. If you filled a tank with freshly filtered water and added a skimmer, the skimmer would produce nothing. The food that you feed supposedly adds 99% of all phosphates in our systems. The other 1% is supposedly produced by the metabolism of the fish, corals, etc. I just do the opposite of what Sascha tells me and the tank has been awesome! The gospel, according to Ty. Let us all go forth and have incredible tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planeden Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Haha Dennis. Number 8 says a refugium will not replace a skimmer. First you have to have need of a skimmer! Depending on the amount of algae you have, that could account for the low PO4 reading as well. For Gonzo's sake I'll clarify. Protein skimmers remove dissolved organic compounds by injecting air into the water. The waste is more dense than air and so it rides the bubbles to the top...in a very simplified sort of way. If you filled a tank with freshly filtered water and added a skimmer, the skimmer would produce nothing. The food that you feed supposedly adds 99% of all phosphates in our systems. The other 1% is supposedly produced by the metabolism of the fish, corals, etc. Well, ok. I was trying to use it as an extreme example. The 10g has a relatively small amount of algae in it. But my 40g breeder has a 20g sump with what may amount to 10g worth of macro/mud filter. I don't remember the last water change. But it also has 0 nitrates and phosphates. After I lost some of my display macro I started thinking about dosing nitrates when I replace it. Patrick and grog experienced similar things recently and I don't think either of them use a skimmer. Anyway, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just think it is still one of those things that comes down to stocking, setup, and style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Definitely! Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyMedic86 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonzo59 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for the reading material Sascha! It's really helping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 You're welcome! In this hobby, you learn and then relearn things all the time. If you don't have questions, then that means you probably don't care. "Play the board not the man." - Bobby Fisher "All drains lead to the ocean." - Gill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.