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HELP, Battling Heat... already


SChrisEV

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Looks like my original post and the replies were lost in the last database debacle!

Basic jist was, tank is reaching close to 83 degrees (goal is 78), have plans to make longer term changes, but will be out of town for a week, starting early next week, so looking for a quick, non-complex fix/patch.

Had some great ideas, sorry I don't all remember who said what.... Ideas were:

Add fan to aid in evaporation, and in turn temp drop.

Add a room/Window A/C unit, I stated that my room was normally hotter than the rest of the house

I might have forgot others.

The plan, is two fold. One big thanks to Capt. Obvious for offering a chiller he has as a sort term solutions while I am gone. Two, while I do have fans in the room, nothing that blows directly on the water surface, so I will add a clip on fan to do that. I was worried about my ATO not holding enough to compensate for the increased evaporation, but BIO said "Stupid, get a larger ATO reservoir while you are gone".... okay he did not say the stupid part, but I'm sure he thought it, cuz I did as soon as I read it. smile.png

Putting this post back up for me to update as I "fix" my issues and hopefully help someone else. Speaking of, there is another post started today very similar to my heat issue. Some good ideas there were to ensure that the pumps and powerheads in the system are not running hotter than normal, and if they are clean or replace them.

That is actually part of my longer term plan, replace the 3 sump pumps with one pump and a manifold configuration. Again thanks BIO for that one.

MAN Bio I hope you plan to still be active on ARC once you move!!! You've helped a lot of people on there.

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Even with a larger ATO container I would recommend having someone swing by from either off the forum or a tank sitting service to make sure you don't have any problems while your away and fill your ATO.

There are plenty of articles on people leaving for vacation and coming back to issues such as George Monnat http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/27081-flailing-along/

and we all invest too much money to come back and lose everything.

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Yeah, I do hear ya. I have someone that will be coming by to feed the cat's and dog daily (twice actually) and I have fish feeding instructions as well as measured amounts of food in small containers all ready. Filling the ATO container was/is not on my list for them. I do have a buddy that is close, and has a key that I can call to do some basic stuff if needed.

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Yeah I have a clip on light over my sump, but I also have a string tied around the neck attached to the top of the stand so if the clip fails the light will still just hang, and not go swimming. I'd do the same with the fans.

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  • 4 weeks later...

After a very long night (Thursday) I finally replaced my plumbing with a new manifold design. After I got it all connected and running in the stand I realized..... I took ZERO, NONE, ZILCH, NADA pictures. thumbsdown.gif.

So now I have one pump, a Mag 18 pulling water from the sump, pushing water first to my ventrilo style skimmer, then to my BRS dual GFO / Carbon canisters, then the water is returned to the display tank. I have three additional un-used ports. I do like the simplicity of the design, but it did not achieve my overall goal of reducing the heat to the level I want. One (okay two) other design issues that were just really poor on my part.

First off my design flaws; my plan was to push the manifold all the way back to the back wall of the stand, leaving the sump forward a few inches to allow plenty of space to the ball valves and connections. I used a couple of PVC 45s to allow for some fudge (move the line a little from left to right, and minimize the head loss due to a 90 connection. Well, I did not look at the overall high of the sump in relation to the slope of PVC, FAIL, I had to move the sump back closer to the back of the stand. This worked so all my time and effort was no totally waited, BUT now I don't have much room for connections, and the three un-used ports are really too close to the overflow plumbing to be of much use.

Next the heat. I reached a temp of 83 degrees that pushed me to finally start this project. Once back up and running (and tested for about an hour) I went to bed around 4 am. I had to leave for Dallas at 10 am Friday. The tank temp was up to about 78.8 higher than I wanted at 10am but was hoping for the best. By 2:00pm my APEX was emailing me telling me my temp was 82.1, FAIL From Friday to Sunday that was the highest temp it got to, but still too high IMHO.

I'm still on a quest to reduce the heat without needing (for long term) a chiller. I have two 36" BuildMy LEDs, and a 36" PC light (slated to be replaced), in the display tank I have two power heads/pumps for water movement, a Hydor 1500 and a SICCE Voyager 3 Stream. And as stated above in the sump I have one Mag 18. I am now thinking the heat is coming from the lights, but that's a bit of a surprise as the LED's don't put out a lot of heat. The LED fixture itself gets warm to the touch, bit placing my hand under the light it's not very hot, warm but not hot. Same with the PC light. It gets hotter to the touch, but not a lot of heat (it seems) at the water level. At night (lights out) the temp stays close to the same or drops a bit.

I've thought about building some custom fans for the top of the tank, both to cool the lights as well as aid in water evaporation The top of the tank is completely open right now. I don't really understand why all the heat. Any other ideas, or thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

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It's been my experience aquaria will often run several degrees warmer than the room they are in and 5 degrees above room temp would not surprise me. Even with LEDs and propellor type powerheads which draw less current if you add up all the wattage of your equipment you are most likely still at several hundred watts. I personally will go with a chiller only as a final resort as it's adding several more hundred watts to the room even though it is cooling the tank. Evaporative colloing will help but if the room is already running warmer like you mention I would also look at the feasability of installing a duct fan or as was suggested a windo AC unit to get the heat outside where it belongs smile.png

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It's been my experience aquaria will often run several degrees warmer than the room they are in and 5 degrees above room temp would not surprise me. Even with LEDs and propellor type powerheads which draw less current if you add up all the wattage of your equipment you are most likely still at several hundred watts. I personally will go with a chiller only as a final resort as it's adding several more hundred watts to the room even though it is cooling the tank. Evaporative colloing will help but if the room is already running warmer like you mention I would also look at the feasability of installing a duct fan or as was suggested a windo AC unit to get the heat outside where it belongs smile.png

Yeah, if I take the tank out of the picture all together, this would help me be more comfortable in the room as well! So I expect in the end this might be my best plan. But I still feel that I should be able to manage the temp better in the tank.

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chris what are your heaters set to? how are they controlled?
In my 10g AIO, I use one 40mm high CFM silenx fan, and I can keep the temp at a flat 77 degrees if I want to. I'm fairly certain some good tank mount fans with decent after market fans are all you need to get it lower. Do you have any PC's or other electronic devices in there? Have you added cooling to your hood to minimize heat from those BML fixtures? Waht about an attic fan on a timer? Or patching into your return?

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I currently do not have any heaters in the system at all to ensure there was not some issue with them. Also I have yet to build my canopy so there is no hood, I have a basic frame that holds the lights where I want them, but it is all open.

What do you mean by PCs? Do you mean in the room, as in a computer? Yes, it's actually my home office, and yes they do put off heat, that is the main reason the room is hotter than the rest of the house. Two systems, a printer and a fax. I have central AC and a vent in the ceiling but it's not enough with the tank.

My next plan of action is actually to use some higher-end computer fans, 80mm or even 120mm fans, quite ones, wired together and controlled by the APEX based on tank temp. Maybe 2 or 3 over the lights and tank, and maybe one over the sump. Just need to figure out how to wire 3 or 4 PC fans into an AC cord. smile.png

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I currently do not have any heaters in the system at all to ensure there was not some issue with them. Also I have yet to build my canopy so there is no hood, I have a basic frame that holds the lights where I want them, but it is all open.

What do you mean by PCs? Do you mean in the room, as in a computer? Yes, it's actually my home office, and yes they do put off heat, that is the main reason the room is hotter than the rest of the house. Two systems, a printer and a fax. I have central AC and a vent in the ceiling but it's not enough with the tank.

My next plan of action is actually to use some higher-end computer fans, 80mm or even 120mm fans, quite ones, wired together and controlled by the APEX based on tank temp. Maybe 2 or 3 over the lights and tank, and maybe one over the sump. Just need to figure out how to wire 3 or 4 PC fans into an AC cord. :)

Go to www.coolerguys.com. They have grown since I bought my stuff from them, but they should have a PC fan power supply wired for AC.
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Here is a video of it in action: (might want to turn down your volume...it was filmed in a small room) 1:56 long video, the fan gets unplugged at :21...the remaining 1:35 is the time it takes to spin down o_O

hell of a bearing

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Here is a video of it in action: (might want to turn down your volume...it was filmed in a small room) 1:56 long video, the fan gets unplugged at :21...the remaining 1:35 is the time it takes to spin down o_O

hell of a bearing

Indeed, I am amazed by how powerful it is for its size too...I would never want my fingers near the unguarded side though.

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Ok, first thing you may want to do is shutdown your PC, take it outside and dust it thoroughly. Make sure you clean between the fan and heatsinks. Get better fans in it as well. Also consider using S3/Power Saving/Hibernate when not in use. My home office is in the same boat. My remedy thus far is to make sure the systems go to sleep completely when not in use. If all my workstations are in sleep mode, my home office stays at about 74 degrees. With it on, i sit in the low to mid 80's.

I'm assuming this room is at the back of the house as well? You may want to consider stabilizing your air by installing a through-the-wall vent above your door. Basically, its a hole through the wall into the hallway, covered on both ends with a vent grill. This allows hot air to push through the higher surfaces, and into the hallway for better heat exchange. Adding a floor sweep will aid in keeping cold air pressure from escaping.

Additionally, you need to remember to adjust your vents seasonally. Cutting ventilation to the lower floors, or ancillary rooms will help in cooling the room. Try adjusting the dampers on your living room vent but 1/4 increments every 30-45 minutes and checking the temp in the room. Try with door open and closed. If the problem stabilizes with the door closed, problem solved. If it only stops when the door is open, you may have too much pressure accumulation in the room. Which in turn will keep the AC from cooling the room properly.

I currently do not have any heaters in the system at all to ensure there was not some issue with them. Also I have yet to build my canopy so there is no hood, I have a basic frame that holds the lights where I want them, but it is all open.

What do you mean by PCs? Do you mean in the room, as in a computer? Yes, it's actually my home office, and yes they do put off heat, that is the main reason the room is hotter than the rest of the house. Two systems, a printer and a fax. I have central AC and a vent in the ceiling but it's not enough with the tank.

My next plan of action is actually to use some higher-end computer fans, 80mm or even 120mm fans, quite ones, wired together and controlled by the APEX based on tank temp. Maybe 2 or 3 over the lights and tank, and maybe one over the sump. Just need to figure out how to wire 3 or 4 PC fans into an AC cord. smile.png

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Good call Planeden: http://www.coolerguys.com/840556091998.html Can drive three AC Fans. Only $5

I think I got the one tat runs five for my entertainment center. My receiver and cable box stay cool to the touch.

I have the same heating issue in my office. I cut a hole in my door and aimed a circulation fan at it for venting. It worked well last summer, but I just rearranged the office and need to adjust my fan.

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