Filtration to Support Heavy Fish Load

[jestep]

Yes, some very good recommendations. I think I am going to use a bioball wet/dry and an over-sized skimmer. I plan to build the sump as you describe, return pump ion the middle with skimmer and refugium on each side. The aragonite is what I will use. Does a 2" bed have a benefit over a deeper one?

Also, I've never done a mud refugium but it is something I want to try. What is the difficulty level for this?

This is where you're going to have to do a lot of research to see what works best for your setup and intentions.

Sand beds, both in the tank and in the refugium are always a debatable topic. Not that there's a better way to do them, but there's a ton of sand bed types, including a mud bed, which can have a dramatically different effect on their effectiveness and tank stability. There's different grain sizes, as well as different depths, or plenum type systems. All of these have advantages and drawbacks over other setups.

Same thing goes with the bioballs, most people including myself do not recommend using bioballs in a SW tank as they can collect detritus fairly easy which later turns them into the often quoted "nitrate factory". The live rock typically provides amble surface area for bacterial filtration, so we run a sock or filter floss for mechanical filtration which is changed every few weeks. But again, there's no right way to do it as long as you find something that works for your setup.

[+Capt. Obvious]

I gave him advise he asked for, and recommended against overstocking (which is common mistake made by people new to this hobby), As did several others...what discourages many new comers to the hobby is loss of livestock and that happens frequently with overstocking. In addition, I quoted directly from his post and corrected one word to not cause confusion and even added the (sic) (misused [sic]) as one should when changing a quote...

I think your reading a lot into a simple spelling correction and some sound advice

[Rick & Kenda]

I haven't felt spoken down to or thought any of these comments were rude. The opposite actually, thanks for all the great advice. I am going to learn more on sand/mud beds and macro algae. Hmm, also learn a bit more about gobies too.

[+Capt. Obvious]

I haven't felt spoken down to or thought any of these comments were rude. The opposite actually, thanks for all the great advice. I am going to learn more on sand/mud beds and macro algae. Hmm, also learn a bit more about gobies too.

I am glad, as no disrespect was intended.

Remeber there is no one "right way' to do any of this

some people swear by bioballs some swear against them

some people use oversized skimmers

others go all natural

some use GFO

Some use biopellets

some use zeovit

Researching and finding the best method that works for you and your lifestyle and livestock is the best option

if you want to learn about Macro...go see Subsea's place (it will be a trip since you are so far north...and he is so far south)

Gobies can be fun little characters...others can be a royal pain in the *** if you have corals that live on the sandbed

[innate1]

My bad. I guess I'm the sensitive one. I didn't see where correcting case to can added anything at all. But that's just me. He's happy all is good. I apologize for offending your gracious nature.

[+Capt. Obvious]

My bad. I guess I'm the sensitive one. I didn't see where correcting case to can added anything at all. But that's just me. He's happy all is good. I apologize for offending your gracious nature.

No worries, I just had no clue as to what you were talking about. the correction was simply to use a direct quote but not lose meaning, there was no intent on spell shaming or mockery.

Not offended in any way, that is the trouble sometimes on the internet...tone is generally lost.

[innate1]

agreed. Back to the question, if he wants a lot of fish, in a 55 what would be too many if he stuck with gobies ?

[+Capt. Obvious]

depends on the goby...

fireprawn gobies/ highfin gobies/ panda gobies stay SUPER small

orangspot/engineer/etc get huge

I'd say a pistol/ goby combo and a couple clown gobies would be fine

beware too many gobies = territorial

[innate1]

I went to wetweb and they said exactly the same thing. Some are super territorial so do your homework

[Planeden]

I haven't felt spoken down to or thought any of these comments were rude. The opposite actually, thanks for all the great advice. I am going to learn more on sand/mud beds and macro algae. Hmm, also learn a bit more about gobies too.

if you are looking for info and deep sand beds and mud check out this old thread. it also has a lot of links to outside information.

http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/23586-want-to-hear-from-anyone-using-a-dsb-in-their-dt-also-miracle-mud-for-sump/

clark's addiction (www.clarksaddiction.com i think) has a lot of good info, too. it is probably linked in that thread, but you can google it if not. i don't have it bookmarked here.

[subsea]

You have been giving many good suggestions on biological filtration. It is my opinion that live rock is an expensive method for bio filtration. Excessive live rock interferes with circulation causing secondary problems. Substrate provides maximum surface area for bacteria to colonize. In your display, use aroggonite substrate less than 2". I like Caribsea Florida Crushed Coral at 1". In your refugium, use a mud/macro filter. I like Capt Obvious suggestion of dividing sump in three sections with return pump in the middle and skimmer and refugium on opposite ends.

If you want a lot of movement with fish, consider mollies as a good herbivore.

Patrick

o

Yes, some very good recommendations. I think I am going to use a bioball wet/dry and an over-sized skimmer. I plan to build the sump as you describe, return pump ion the middle with skimmer and refugium on each side. The aragonite is what I will use. Does a 2" bed have a benefit over a deeper one?

Also, I've never done a mud refugium but it is something I want to try. What is the difficulty level for this?

Rick,

Mud/refugium is very easy to set up and maintain. I purchased my first mud system 11 years ago. It had been set up for a couple of years and I have never purchased miracle mud. During those 11 years, the mud has increased in depth from 3/4" to 1.5". It is slightly spongy to the touch and is crawling with worms. As I understand miracle mud, it is high in iron which is a necessary nutrient for macroalgae. I would dose with iron for the macro.

From the point of view of di-nitrififing bacteria, a deep sand bed in a reduced enviroment of oxygen will produce bacteria that consume nitrate and give off a nitrogen gas molecule. Yes, I have DSB from 6"-12", but I prefer to use macroalgae to export nitrate and phosphate. Considering your intention to have a heavy fish population, I would consider a shallow sand bed that can be vacuumed and maintained easy. Depending on your fish determines substrate depth and grain size.

La bonne temps roulee,

Patrick

[Timfish]

Back in 1992 or 1993 there was an article in FAMA that looked at how much food could be processed in a 30 gallon total system with bioballs and a shallow reverse flow UG and after conditioniing it was able to process the equivalent of a pound of dry food a day.

Finally got around to looking this up. It was an expierement done by a Dr. Scott Siddall, Marine Sciences Research Center, State University of New York and published in March 1988. In a 30 gallon tank with a reverse flow under gravel filter and 33 lbs of dolomite it was to process 370 mg NH4 and hour. Equivelent to feeding 4.4 kg (10 lbs) of of fish and inverts (assuming they were fed 5% of thier body weight and 4% of that is excreted as ammonia).

[+FluxCapacitor]

Well I learned something about dolomite today. Not the dolomite I was thinking of.

I didn't realize that using miracle mud could up the filtration quality so much and I read some places saying to avoid using it. There is so much controversy over what "is right" in this hobby and I think I've found that what someone said above is true.... you have to find what works for you and your setup.

Good luck Rick & Kenda, this forum is incredibly helpful and full of people willing to give sound advice. I usually will take a person in my community's advice over the random forum postings found online. I've also noticed that this hobby has changed a lot over the years. Things like LED lights were unheard of in the reef hobby 15 years ago and it was believed that you needed MH lights to have a good tank. Some people will still vehemently swear by them and say it's the only way but that may be because they've had good success with them. I wouldn't want to use anything that sucks down the power bill like that and heats the house/tank up.

[FarmerTy]

Holy thread from the grave! Last post was from 2013! You must have an elephant memory Tim to remember to go back and post on this thread.

Was the study only concerned with the processing of ammonia? I think he should study my fish tub next. I have about 80 lbs of live rock in the tub, 50 gallons of water, and I feed the heck out of it with no ammonia issues. Now this only applies to a fish only system as my nitrates are sky high as well as my phosphates but the fish don't care about that at all as long as disease doesn't run rampant in there. I keep the bacterial population in check by running a skimmer and also use it for additional aeration.

[Sascha D.]

Good luck Rick & Kenda, this forum is incredibly helpful and full of people willing to give sound advice. I usually will take a person in my community's advice over the random forum postings found online. I've also noticed that this hobby has changed a lot over the years. Things like LED lights were unheard of in the reef hobby 15 years ago and it was believed that you needed MH lights to have a good tank. Some people will still vehemently swear by them and say it's the only way but that may be because they've had good success with them. I wouldn't want to use anything that sucks down the power bill like that and heats the house/tank up.

This thread had 13 contributors before Tim's update; I believe 3 are active, 5 I know for a fact are inactive and 5 I've never seen since I've been a member. I'm pretty sure the OP hasn't been active in over a year.

I will agree that the hobby has changed over the years. Some people on this forum have been around since before protein skimmers were widely used and they've seen it all. The guy who posted about the mud doesn't even use mud anymore. The reason people use metal halides is because they're still the best and no research has proven otherwise. One of the only reasons people have switched from MH is because of the heat and not the cost of power consumption. This is a hobby of extravagance and hobbyists looking into MH are people who have discretionary capital.