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Flailing Along


George Monnat Jr

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My tank has been in crisis mode for about a month now, ever since my last week-long vacation. Some fish died, because I didn't account for the ich energy drain on their systems in the feeding schedule (basically they starved). That and maybe other things fouled the water killing snails, anemones, etc. which really fouled the water. The vicious cycle caused a massive surge in GHA, including killing the Sea Hare and others which I had added to eat the GHA (REALLY fouled the water), and the cyano started coming back. It's been a real mess, and every time it looks like I might be getting back to normal, something dies or fails, like the return pump, and starts it all over again. Due to lack of time (traveling for work), financial issues and drained energy, I'm seriously considering changing it to FW.

My biggest problem has been alkalinity has stayed extremely low. I use Dr. Holmes-Farley's recipe for baked baking soda water which cheaply adds alkalinity, but I have to add 6 cups a day just to keep it above 6 dKH and much more to boost it to around 8 dKH. That plays hobbledy-nob with my pumps and tubing as it causes abiotic precipitation and plating.

What's worse is that my calcium has been dropping, too. I have to add 2 cups a day of Kent Marine Liquid Calcium to maintain calcium or 3+ cups a day to get it back to 400 ppm. That gets expensive, and it causes pump and plumbing failures, too.

I was bolus dosing, but I had pump failures. I switched to diluting the additives in water pulled from the sump then slowly pouring into an overflow. I'm still having pump issues, so now I'm dripping it in. But that doesn't answer my fundamental question of why all of a sudden I have to add so much.

Prior to last month, I would go weeks or months without testing for alkalinity and calcium, and when I did test it was almost always good. My ATO adds limewater/kalkwasser (KW), and that adds balanced alkalinity and calcium keeping pH, alkalinity and calcium all good. Now it doesn't seem to make a difference. I haven't really added livestock, and what I did add was a few polyps of zoas and palys - not stoneys. I doubt the flare up of GHA or cyano is sucking down my alkalinity and calcium, but something sure is draining it out of my system (even after accounting for any abiotic precipitation).

At first I figured the ammonia and acids from the rotting stuff was scavenging the alkalinity which was supported by the fact that pH was also very low. A few days ago, I think I finally cleared up all the crud including ammonia, but now my pH is too high. I recalibrated my two pH probes and did independent tests, but it's still high. High pH prevents me from adding KW, so that means I have to add even more supplements to prevent yet another crash. And that means I can't blame ammonia, etc.

And I'm about to leave again on another work trip...

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Get a pet sitter. This could of all been avoided if someone checked on the tank daily that knew what to look for.

When Juiceman went away for just a weekend I watched his fish and in just that short amount of time he had a tang die that I was able to pull out before any ill effects on his system.

Have you checked your Mg levels? Have someone else swing by and check your levels with their test kits.

I would probably start with a 20% water change to even everything out and do it again in a week.

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I'm sorry to hear of all your troubles. It took me over 3 yrs to get a tank that was stable, and that I could have pride in. I almost gave up as well, but i'm glad I didn't. If you need any help while out of (or in) town, please do give me a ring.

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I had a pet sitter for dogs and tank. They texted me daily and followed my instructions, so I don't blame them. The Powder Brown Tang died right before I got back as it still looked 'fresh' and no shrimp or others had even nibbled on it, yet.

My Mg is about 1400 ppm and no snowstorms since this began. I have RCA test my water, too (not Mg). I've been doing large water changes the whole time which is how I got ammonia back under control. But what is draining the alkalinity and calcium? Some monster sponge under the LR?

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Do you have a heavy coralline algae load? I don't know what could be consuming that amount of alk/ca so quickly... You don't have a super heavy SPS load do you?

Because of cyano, valonia and GHA over the last 1-3 months, I have significantly less coralline algae than before. I have 2 SPS, both 1" tall birdsnests. I have 3x LPS, two Frogspawn heads and 1 baseball-sized Candy Cane. The rest are all mushrooms, ricordea, zoas and palys.

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Doesn't high co2 cause low alkalinity? Gas exchange or flow possibly? You said your pump went out right? Just a shot in the dark lol you could maby try an air stone? I'm terrible at chemistry so I'm not sure about the whole process but if I were you I would try air exchange and water changes. Maby not dose baking soda as much since it will raise ph and try an alkalinity source that does not add ph. Look like a lot of people are viewing so you'll prob get better advice lol

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There is a relationship between pH and CO2. My skimmer has been running, and I open windows regularly. I can see a slight decrease in pH with the windows closed and a slight increase when they are open. I don't think CO2 scavenges the materials that make up alkalinity, but I could be wrong.

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i read your post and remembered reading a couple of good articles about PH. I went to look them up to copy them in here and got to "George Monnat posted...wait a second". anyway, good luck.

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If this was my tank for one I would expect it to take 4 - 5 months to work it's way through this problem. If the GHA is really bad I would pull out the rock and scrub it off in aquarium water to physically remove it and the nutrients bound up in it from the system. If a rock didn't have anything of interest on it and is poorly covered with coraline but has a lot of GHA I would consider tossing it or leaving it out in the sun for a long while. Since your durrent methods for maintaining pH, Alk and Calcium aren't working consider a different approach. If I read your initial post correctly you reffered to kalkwasser as a ballanced alkalinity and calcium addititve, what's actually happening is the calcium hydroxide solution is added to tyhe aquarium it is reacting with the CO2 in the aquarium to form calcium bicarbonates so with low CO2 levels you can get high pH and depleted alkalinity1. Keep in mind the GHA is pulling out CO2 during photosynthesis. (An interesting experiment would be to syphon off a few gallons and aeriate it overnight in a bucket to see how the pH, Alk and Ca change.) I would suggest stop using different components to seperately add Alk and Ca and use a supplement that is balanced (my favorite is CaribSea's Aragamight but there other excellent products as well). I would keep doing frequent 10 or 20% water changes and my preffered animal for eating algae in an aquarium are the various urchins (atlanitc green, Royal or Tuxedo NOT any of the pencil urchins). I do not like snails, I've seen hundreds if not thousands of snail shells in aquariums over the years and very, very few mature live ones.

1 The Reef Aquarium Vol. III pg 159

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Tim,

I agree with your post, and I've been doing some of that already (like scrubbing LR with H2O2). This all started after a week-long out-of-state trip. The thing is, I will continue to travel a week at a time. After each trip the DT is in worse shape, I have to spend 2-3 hours everyday babysitting and then start all over after the next trip after losing more livestock. I think the best thing for me (time- and money-wise) and the livestock is to find it all a new home and convert to FW. Until such a time as I stop traveling and have more money for upgrades. At least I can still use all of the equipment, so there's not really a waste of money.

I've been thinking about trading in all the livestock and LR to RCA for FW livestock. I really like my LR and would love top keep it for later, but I'd hate to kill on of the critters in it. I've had ich recently, so I don't think most people want the LR. Someone with a clean, stable tank would be able to quickly handle any GHA or cyano on the rocks.

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What is your fish load currently? I battled low alk forever along with red hair algae. It wasnt until I finally got all my light cycles/dosing timed that I got it under control.

Is there possibly a cryptic zone here?

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Maybe something else to consider george is to get rid of your fish/inverts and just keep coral for a bit. If your nutrient input in the form of fish food goes away, you might be able to get the algae issues under control without having to sacrifice the health of your stock. When your tank is algae free, you can add them back in at your leisure.

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Just to make sure its covered, is dkh or meq/l confirmed for units for your calculations. Using JDiecks calc online with your tank size and additions point to meq/l calc and addition...~32tsp baked b.soda.

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What is your fish load currently? I battled low alk forever along with red hair algae. It wasnt until I finally got all my light cycles/dosing timed that I got it under control.

Is there possibly a cryptic zone here?

Here's my list of everything that I've put in my tank and is probably still alive. I have the add dates for everything, too, and nothing has been added for months (or almost, the Candy Cap Monti frags and the Fairy Dust Palys were added March 17th).

1 medium (1.5") Yellowtail Damselfish (Chrysiptera parasema)

1 large (2.5") Randall's/Orange Stripe Shrimp/Prawn Goby (Amblyeleotris randalli)

1 medium (2”) Firefish (Nemateleotris magnifica)

1 medium (1”) Yellow Clown Goby (Gobiodon okinawae)

1 medium (1”) Neon Goby (Elacatinus oceanops)

2 medium (1¼”) White Banded Possum Wrasses (Wetmorella albofasciata)

1 large (5”) Black Brittle Sea Star (Ophiocomina sp.)

a few Nerite Snails (Nerita sp.)

a few Cerith Snails (Cerithium sp.)

1 large Bumblebee/Bumble Bee Snail (Engina sp.)

few tiny Bumblebee/Bumble Bee Snails (Engina sp.)

2 small (1”) Yellow Sea Cucumbers (Colochirus robustus)

2 small (1/2” dia) Blue Tuxedo Urchins (Mespilia globulus)

1 medium Electric Flame Scallop (Lima sp.)

1 large (2") Tiger Pistol/Snapping Shrimp (Alpheus bellulus)

7 small (1/4"-1/2") Sexy Shrimp (Thor amboinensis)

1 huge (2") Pacific Scarlet/Skunk Cleaner Shrimp (Lysmata amboinensis)

2 medium (1.5") Blood Red Fire Shrimp (Lysmata debelius)

2 large (1.5”-2”) Peppermint Shrimp (Lysmata wurdemanni complex)

1 medium (1.5”) Peacock-Tail/White Spot/White-patched/Glass/Pacific Clown Anemone Shrimp (Periclimenes brevicarpalis)

1 medium (1”) Spotted Cleaner/Commensal/Anemone Shrimp (Periclimenes yucatanicus)

1 medium (1”) Porcelain Rock Crab (Petrolisthes galathinus)

2 medium (1”) Porcelain Anemone Crabs (Neopetrolisthes ohshimai)

1 medium (1”) Porcelain Anemone Crabs (Neopetrolisthes maculatus)

1 small (1" dia.) Rose Bulb/Bubble-Tip Anemone (RBTA; Entacmaea quadricolor)

1 medium (2" dia.) Rose Bulb/Bubble-Tip Anemone (RBTA; Entacmaea quadricolor)

1 large (3” dia.) green w/red pattern Maxi-Mini Carpet Anemone (Stichodactlya tapetum)

1 large (2.5” dia.) red w/green edge Maxi-Mini Carpet Anemone (Stichodactlya tapetum)

1 small (1.5” dia.) orange Maxi-Mini Carpet Anemone (Stichodactlya tapetum)

1 medium (2” dia.) blue Maxi-Mini Carpet Anemone (Stichodactlya tapetum)

1 large (2" dia.) Hawaiian Feather Duster (Sabellastarte sp.)

1 medium (1/2" dia.) Purple/Pink Dwarf Colored Feather Duster (Bispira sp.)

1 large (3”) LR frag of BamBam Orange Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)

2 small (1”) LR frags of Green Apples Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)

lots of medium (½”-1”) Icey Blue Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.) <Texas trash palys, I'm pretty sure>

~20 heads of Tubbs Blue Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)

~5 heads of “Yellow” Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)

~5 heads of Green Bay Packers Zoanthids (Zoanthus sp.)

~4 heads of Fairy Dust Palythoas (Palythoa sp.)

1 huge (4”) Metallic Orange Mushroom (Discosoma sp.)

5 smaller (1/2”-2”) Metallic Orange Mushrooms (Discosoma sp.)

2 small (1”) Green Mushroom (Rhodactis sp.)

8 small (1/2”-1”) heads of Blue-Spotted Green Mushrooms (Actinodiscus spp)

1 medium (1”) Orange Tamales Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

1 medium (1”) Yellow Ring Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

1 medium (1”) Ultra Blue Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

1 medium (1”) Purple Mosaic Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

1 medium (1”) Aliens Blood Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

1 medium (1”) Rainbow Mushroom (Rhodactis spp)

4 large (2”) Orange Superman Mushrooms (Rhodactis spp)

3 medium (1”) Orange and Purple Ricordea (Ricordea florida)

2 medium (1”) Blue and Purple Ricordea (Ricordea florida)

1 large (1.5”) Blue Ricordea (Ricordea florida)

large clusters of Green Star Polyps (Clavularia viridis) now on about 3 LR

~20 stalks Pulsing Xenia (Xenia spp) in 4 colonies

1 large colony (>20 heads) Candy Cane Coral (Caulastrea furcata)

4 medium (1”) heads of Branching Frogspawn Coral (Euphyllia paradivisa)

2 small (1”-1.5”) frags of Green Polyp Birdsnest (Seriatopora guttatus)

1 small (1”) frag of Yellow Fiji Leather Coral (Sarcophyton elegans)

2 small (1”) frags of Red Candy Cap Coral (Montipora capricornis)

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Maybe something else to consider george is to get rid of your fish/inverts and just keep coral for a bit. If your nutrient input in the form of fish food goes away, you might be able to get the algae issues under control without having to sacrifice the health of your stock. When your tank is algae free, you can add them back in at your leisure.

That's an interesting idea. I'd have to rip all the LR out to get them, which I'm planning on doing anyway. My biggest issue and time and money sink right now is alkalinity and calcium. I don't want to ask my wife (or anyone else) to do a daily testing and supplement regiment for weeks at a time. And me doing it, too.

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Just to make sure its covered, is dkh or meq/l confirmed for units for your calculations. Using JDiecks calc online with your tank size and additions point to meq/l calc and addition...~32tsp baked b.soda.

All my numbers for alkalinity are dKH. 32 tsp for what time frame? That seems like a ton of bbs per day.

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I'm seriously scratching my head at the alk/Ca consumption. You are using what appears to be a *ton* of alk for a tank that is not stony dominant. Good news is, most of the corals you listed should be pretty happy with low alk. You could probably scratch all that dosing and focus on nutrient control first, then alk/ca control if you make it through the GHA valley of death first :).

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The stuff that was most harmed by low alkalinity, mainly my big anemones, have already died off. That's what has really been fueling the GHA and other nastiness. If stuff would stop dying, then it could stabilize.

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I'm using Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley's recipe of 2 1/4 cup baking soda baked and dissolved in 1g of RODI.

Spread baking soda (594 grams or about 2 ¼ cups) on a baking tray and heat in an ordinary oven at 300°F for one hour to drive off water and carbon dioxide. Overheating is not a problem, either with higher temperatures or longer times. Dissolve the residual solid in enough water to make 1 gallon total. This dissolution may require a fair amount of mixing. Warming it speeds dissolution. This solution will contain about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity (5,300 dKH).

If it's homogeneous, I'm guessing that 1 cup of that 1g contains 331.25 dKH, or 165.625 dKH each 1/2 cup I add. That seems really crazy, because I've been adding 6 cups just to maintain the same alkalinity. That recipe is simple enough that even I shouldn't be able to screw it up, and it worked really well for over a year for me.

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