Protein Skimming, Refugium, and Sand Sifting Goby

[Kaplanm]

So I'm setting up my first reef tank and I've been looking at getting some form of a sand sifting goby. (Probably the Diamond Sleeper goby) My question is, if I'm running a protein skimmer will I have issues keeping him fed? All my experience is with fresh water tropicals so the world of sumps, and protein skimming is a whole new series of concepts for me.

[+etannert]

No, all gobies eat whatever you feed the tank (not just by sifting the sand), and even with a skimmer, your sand will become colonized with all sorts or bacteria, flora, fauna, etc.

[Timfish]

If you don't have Delbeek and Sprung's "Reef Aquarium" Vol III it does an excellent job of explaing things including the various filtering methodologies from the very simple pumpless, skimmerless systems by Lee Chin Eng and Dr. Jaubert to the equipment intensive multi tank systems like Dr. Adeys approach. I also wouldn't get hung up on using a skimmer, coral farmers like Steve Tyree (you'll see his name attached to a lot of colorful corals variants) and Tropicoriuminc.com are quite successfull without using them.

Here's a very good series of articles by Ken Feldman, et al. of research on Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and how it's moderated (or not) by activated carbon, skimming and bacteria:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3 TOC part I

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2 TOC part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1 Carbon Part i

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1 Carbon part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2 Skimming part I

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature Skimming part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature Skimmate analysis

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature Bacteria counts and modulation

And just because I like showing off here's one of my skimmerless systems:

[Bogdan]

Timfish,

Amazing and beautiful tank, but the water look a little hazy.

[Planeden]

Great tank timfish.

Hazy? I hope I can keep my water that hazy.

[Timfish]

One of the problems with using a cellphone with little control over the settings You can see in this video as it adjusts to the varying light levels it will alternately look a little hazy then clear then hazy:

Interestingly in a thread on skimmerless tanks¹ and responding to Feldman's research showing skimming reduces bacterial populations to 10% of what is found on wild reefs Randy Farley-Homes seems to suggest coudy water from bacteria is beneficial, "In my tank with a pretty decent skimmer (an ETS 800 gemini run by an Iwaki 55RLT), dosing large amounts of vinegar resulted in the water continually hazy with bacteria. So the skimmer alone absolutely did not cause it to have levels of bacteria only 10% of natural reefs. " As an additional note Feldman's research looked at bacteria that ranged between 0.5um and 6um while Randy Farly-Holmes did not explain how he knew the cloudy water was caused by bacteria and not some other larger "bug".

¹http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2173292

[Bpb]

Timfish. Youve given me solid advice in the past. Those videos are amazing. In a nutshell, how do you maintain low enough nutrients to keep great colors and not having brown sps. Also what methods do you use to maintain calcium and alk? Not to hijack, i'm sure the OP would benefit from a tiny bit of elaboration too. I'm curious. After reading so much about skimmer-less systems, I've stopped worried about my tank being under skimmed. I even turned my skimmer way down to where to takes a week or so to get the cup half full. Haven't noticed any negative effects. May consider pulling it entirely when the pump goes kaput.

[Kaplanm]

I actually placed an order for that volume last night! Thanks for the litany of great references as well.

If you don't have Delbeek and Sprung's "Reef Aquarium" Vol III it does an excellent job of explaing things including the various filtering methodologies from the very simple pumpless, skimmerless systems by Lee Chin Eng and Dr. Jaubert to the equipment intensive multi tank systems like Dr. Adeys approach. I also wouldn't get hung up on using a skimmer, coral farmers like Steve Tyree (you'll see his name attached to a lot of colorful corals variants) and Tropicoriuminc.com are quite successfull without using them.

Here's a very good series of articles by Ken Feldman, et al. of research on Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and how it's moderated (or not) by activated carbon, skimming and bacteria:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3 TOC part I

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2 TOC part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1 Carbon Part i

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1 Carbon part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2 Skimming part I

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeature Skimming part II

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature Skimmate analysis

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature Bacteria counts and modulation

And just because I like showing off here's one of my skimmerless systems:

[Timfish]

. . . You've given me solid advice in the past . . .

. . . Thanks for the litany of great references as well.

Thank You! I try to pass on research that helps me get a clearer picture of what is happening in our tanks as much as possible.

. . . how do you maintain low enough nutrients to keep great

colors and not having brown sps . . .

I'll start with a quote from Charles Delbeek "Our crystal-clear aquaria do not come close to the nutrient loads that swirl around natural reefs" (Coral, Nov/Dec 2010, pg 127). Add to this research that shows the majority of the biomass of a reef system is not fish or corals but algae. Reef systems in the wild are algae based ecosystems that process high levels of nutrients. I would also point out that brown is indicative of zooxantheallae and is a desirable color when considering the health of a coral. Corals actively remove ammonium, nitrates and phosphates from the water to feed their corals. The fluorescing and chromoprotiens corals use can be accentuated by starving the corals reducing the brown coloration there by enhancing the colors or by understanding the lighting and water flow requirements of a coral variant and in many cases increasing the light field to stimulate it to produce more of the pigment effectively making the colors more intense. The Birdsnest colony for example in the 2nd video dramatically shows two different colors, http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/24054-the-difference-a-12-inch-makes/ clearly influenced by the light field. Keep in mind coloration is very complex and in this instance here, http://www.austinreefclub.com/topic/24657-color-and-growth-influenced-by-water-flow/ is influenced not by light intensity but by water flow. Spectrum will also influence the coloration of a coral as some may code for as many as 11 or 12 differrent fluorescing protiens, each sensitive to parts of the spectrum, and will adjust protien production according to the light field. Dana Riddle has a slew of articles about fluorescing and chromo protiens on Advanced Aquarist and elswhere I wold encourage you to read for better explanations about them.

My experience has been if I correctly select corals they will grow and excess nutrients will not be an issue. I do use GFO in some tanks although not in either of the videos posted.

. . . Also what methods do you use to maintain calcium and alk? . . .

The first system I posted used a calcium reactor and a kalkwasser reactor with RO/DI for the water changes (20% month). The 2nd video just uses CaribSeas Aragamight and tapwater (25% month). Aragamight is easy but what's important is that ph, Alk and Calcium is monitored and kept acceptable ranges.

[Bpb]

That all makes really good sense. I'm going to have to invest in some of those books.