aggieMEDIC Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 In reading about the ammonia cycle etc to refresh my memory I came across multiple posts that talk about using mollies or other hearty fish to help speed up the cycle of the tank. Is this still a common practice? If so I'm heading out to get some. I just hate seeing an empty tank and even a few mollies might make it a little more interesting. Your thoughts? Sent from my hacked HP Touchpad running Android ICS using Tapatalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 subsea has mollies in his tanks. I say do it, they are cheap and great at cleaning the algae blooms that will occur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshman1204 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I personally feel cycling with fish is cruel and not necessary any more. Get a bottle of dr tims one and only and some ammonia and you can do a fish less cycle in a much shorter period of time and without risking any livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I personally feel cycling with fish is cruel and not necessary any more. Get a bottle of dr tims one and only and some ammonia and you can do a fish less cycle in a much shorter period of time and without risking any livestock. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I personally feel cycling with fish is cruel and not necessary any more. Get a bottle of dr tims one and only and some ammonia and you can do a fish less cycle in a much shorter period of time and without risking any livestock. I can not agree with the use of the word cruel used to describe cycling fish. Perhaps we should go to the hatcheries where these fish are raised and decide if the fish farmers are nice to the fish. I say cycle your tank the way you want. Do not make judgements on how I choose to cycle a fish tank. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Hey Aggie, I get mollies from PetsMart. Creamcycle Lyretail Mollie, Silver Mollie and Black Mollie. Usually at $2.19 each. Last month on sale, I bought them for $1 each. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scutterborn Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 My tank with black mollies. - Ben - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Very nice looking. Do I see Dragons Breath and a Sargassum macro attached? Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sargassum (fluitans and natans if collected from the gulf) is a pelagic phaeophytic algae that has the insane capacity to biosorp heavy metals due to electrostatic properties in the cell wall. They are able to chelate them, but can actually leech them later: so, if your sargassum is collected from a natural site, say port aransas, it has the potential to leech chelated copper/zinc/lead/mercury into your tank. I would never recommend collecting and tethering a pelagic phaeophyte in a display with any kind of coral or unhardy livestock (aka anything you wouldnt be willing to give a copper treat to) for this very reason. You don't know where it may have come from, or what metals it could be carrying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkiiCircus Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly, my last addition to this thread would be that, when considering cycling your tank, think about the longterm. If you LIKE the look of mollies in your tank, and want them there for the long-haul once you have your reef up and running, great get them. There are FAR too many people who buy things like damsels to cycle their tanks and HATE them in their tank later, take them out to return to a store or kill them- thats cruel, plain and simple. Plus by returning it to a LFS you facilitate the possible transfer of disease or parasites. Remember, once your tank is set up and fully functional its a pain to get small fish out, and just plain mean to discard them. But, like I said, if you want mollies forever, go for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sargassum (fluitans and natans if collected from the gulf) is a pelagic phaeophytic algae that has the insane capacity to biosorp heavy metals due to electrostatic properties in the cell wall. They are able to chelate them, but can actually leech them later: so, if your sargassum is collected from a natural site, say port aransas, it has the potential to leech chelated copper/zinc/lead/mercury into your tank. I would never recommend collecting and tethering a pelagic phaeophyte in a display with any kind of coral or unhardy livestock (aka anything you wouldnt be willing to give a copper treat to) for this very reason. You don't know where it may have come from, or what metals it could be carrying. While I agree with the premise that "you do not know what is in it", the same could be said of every fish in your reef tank. Depending on what animals eat determines what is in there biomass. Barracuda that are 2000 miles away from the origin of bacteria which produce Ciguatera kill people on a cruise ship. Legionnaires disease was caused by breathing air. While these dangers have always been there, we did not always fixate on them. I do not put my head in the sand to ignore the facts, but I do not jump to conclusions about good and bad. Let us pick two heavy metals, cooper and zink. I have used both in agriculture of pecan trees. The heavy metal molecules trigger an enzyme to start using nutrients that were always there but required triggers to initiate complex biological and chemical reactions. This also happens in the marine enviroment. Trace elements of both cooper and zink are indeed required by most marine invertebrate. So I will not 100% agree with your conclusion. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Sargassum (fluitans and natans if collected from the gulf) is a pelagic phaeophytic algae that has the insane capacity to biosorp heavy metals due to electrostatic properties in the cell wall. They are able to chelate them, but can actually leech them later: so, if your sargassum is collected from a natural site, say port aransas, it has the potential to leech chelated copper/zinc/lead/mercury into your tank. I would never recommend collecting and tethering a pelagic phaeophyte in a display with any kind of coral or unhardy livestock (aka anything you wouldnt be willing to give a copper treat to) for this very reason. You don't know where it may have come from, or what metals it could be carrying. While I agree with the premise that "you do not know what is in it", the same could be said of every fish in your reef tank. Depending on what animals eat determines what is in there biomass. Barracuda that are 2000 miles away from the origin of bacteria which produce Ciguatera kill people on a cruise ship. Legionnaires disease was caused by breathing air. While these dangers have always been there, we did not always fixate on them. I do not put my head in the sand to ignore the facts, but I do not jump to conclusions about good and bad. Let us pick two heavy metals, cooper and zink. I have used both in agriculture of pecan trees. The heavy metal molecules trigger an enzyme to start using nutrients that were always there but required triggers to initiate complex biological and chemical reactions. This also happens in the marine enviroment. Trace elements of both cooper and zink are indeed required by most marine invertebrate. So I will not 100% agree with your conclusion. Patrick The difference here is, sargassum is constantly growing/dying/being consumed in the tank. According to ClarkiiCircus, who presents a convincing argument, why take this risk? A frag of coral or fish will hopefully not be in the same circumstances of being consumed by other tankmates. The use of copper and zinc in pecan agriculture are at best an extraordinary tangent to copper toxicity in the marine aquarium. Trace elements are introduced via salt mix, and it is reasonable to try and take unknown variables (ie heavy metal introduction vis a vis release from dying/consumed sargassum). Reduce risk, reduce risk, reduce risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Honestly, my last addition to this thread would be that, when considering cycling your tank, think about the longterm. If you LIKE the look of mollies in your tank, and want them there for the long-haul once you have your reef up and running, great get them. There are FAR too many people who buy things like damsels to cycle their tanks and HATE them in their tank later, take them out to return to a store or kill them- thats cruel, plain and simple. Remember, once your tank is set up and fully functional its a pain to get small fish out, and just plain mean to discard them. But, like I said, if you want mollies forever, go for it. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 I see your points, I do not come to the same conclusion. Enjoy your group discussion. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Aggie, enjoy your mollies. While I have chosen to keep mollies in all my tanks, it is very easy to catch them. They do not have the same fear of nets as do most reef fish. I have removed a school of 20 mollies in five minutes. I think that they thought it was feeding time. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scutterborn Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Very nice looking. Do I see Dragons Breath and a Sargassum macro attached?Patrick Why, yes, you do! Dragons breath and caulerpa prolifera. - Ben - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 Outstanding for you with the Dragons Breath. I really like Caulerpa Prolifera. Not having been successful with Turtle Grass, Prolifera is easily my favorite Caulerpa for nutriant recycle and export. I even have eaten some that was dehydrated. Good sea veggies for a human snack. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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