+Hydro Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Well I guess this has been a hot topic lately. I mentioned in another thread that I had cut away the corner silicone on a few used tanks and replaced to add a better seal. I have never attempted to actually take a tank apart until today. I went to a guys house today to pick up a 90 gallon for my QT system and he had a 40 long with a cracked front glass. He offered to give it to me so I thought I would try and repair it since I need a sump for the QT system. What's wierd is that the back glass has a huge hole cut in it with glass patches glued to the inside and outside to seal it back off. So I'm going to replace both the front and the back glass because of this. I will add some pictures but basically the tough part was removing the fake wood edging around the top and bottom without breaking the glass, it was glued really well. I had to use single edge razor blades and a scraper to get underneath to release the silicone holding it on. Then I used the razor blades to scrape off all the silicone all the way around the glass to get it really clean. After that I used the razor blade to slowly cut in between the sides and bottom glass....viola the glass came off. I'm only going to replace one piece of glass at a time, seems like it will be easier this way. I got a question though, is the fake wood vital to the strength of the tank? It has a glass center brace at the top that I will be leaving, it wasn't connected to the wood. The fake wood broke in to many pieces so if this is vital I will be replacing it with aluminum angle and will silicone it in place like the fake wood was. It seems to me that the top wouldn't be that critical but I think that I may need to add some of this angle around the bottom. Anyone know for sure? If it matters the bottom glass appears to be 3/8" and the sides, front and back is 1/4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Every tank I've seen that has a glass support(s) across the top of the tank the trim is only providing protection for the edges of the glass from chipping and holding glass covers in place, it's not really structural and you should see miter cuts at the corners. The tanks I've seen that have a single molded plasic frame that also provides a center brace (or two or more for longer tanks) the trim is not only structural but is also the jig that holds all the glass in place during it's construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Cool, that makes this easier and less expensive. If I can get 3/8" thick glass for just a little more should I? Unless I replaced it all the way around doesn't seem like it would really make any difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you use 3/8 (I'm assuming the original is 1/4) you might be able to leave out the center brace. Replace the front and back then fill it with water, if you don't measure a difference in width from the ends to the middle you don't need it (if it breaks it's not my fault ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Woods Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Stephen, Depending on how the edges/corners are joined it may actually impact the tank sides meeting the bottom plate correctly. The thicker glass may cause an overhang of the front and back to the bottom plate. Generally the 2 sides are butted up against the back and front panes of glass, with those 2 pieces on the outside and the shorter side pane in between. If you increase the thickness of the front and back, then they hang out beyond the bottom pane. If you are going to use metal molding on the bottom anyway, a bead of silicone may remedy any issue this causes and may not be a big deal. But something to look at before you make your decision. The Center brace is generally there to keep the longer panes from bending and putting added preasure on the corners so they don't split... On this size of tank, if you used thicker front and back glass, you probably wouldn't need the center brace as it wouldn't bend as much. But you would want to verify my first point isn't going to cause a problem for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Woods you are correct the front and back glass would overhang the bottom. I don't see any real problems coming from that that I can think of. I've been reading some and most people agree with Timfish that the trim is for edge protection and not structural so I will be leaving it off. I will put styrofoam underneath it and I will be sanding the edges of the glass on top. I would rather not have the center brace like most people so I may step up to the 3/8" depending on price. Its such a shallow tank (16") that I agree that there should be little bowing with 3/8" glass. Once its built without a brace I'll double check it the center measurement. What amount of bowing is acceptable? Any amount ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Tim is correct. The black plastic is just for protection. Theprice for glass is cheap, I bet that one piece may may cost $40. Binswanger can cut 3/8" glass on site. So they shouldnt have to order it. I would tanke the whole tank apart and just use 3/8"all the way around. The bottom being 1/4" wont matter. If you want silicone, i have 7 or 8 tubes left from my tank build. It NO big deal to put it together. You could make it look nice by putting a euro brace around the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Woods Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Stephen, 16" high across what I think is 48" long for a 40long tank shouldn't bow much using the thicker glass. I would say 1/4 or even 1/2 inch total in the middle would be fine, but I doubt you will even come close to that with the 16". If you were 20" or 22" high, yes you would see more bowing, but minimal at 16". If you do see more and are worried about it, like Offroaddodge says, you could do euro bracing. But I doubt you would need it. Besides, its just a sump so it won't be filled to the top of the 16" any way... Good luck, keep us posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 Ok an update. I called around and found out the glass is pretty expensive vs the value of the tank. I got a quote for front and back glass 48" x 16" x 1/4" is $35 per each ($70 total), 48" x 16" x 3/8" is $70 each ($140). I called around and for a new tank I was looking at around $100. I decided not to replace the back glass where someone long ago cut a hole for an overflow. Since then someone had installed a glass patch over the hole and it looks to have been that way for a while. I decided not to replace the back glass but instead remove the glass patch they installed and cut a larger piece from the broken glass that I removed and use that for the patch instead (remember this is for a sump). This way the tank will have cost me $40 and a couple hours work. Luckily it was kinda fun working on something new so I guess that makes it worth it. I'm not going to go with the 3/8" glass and I don't think that I'll euro brace it either. Since its a sump I just can see the advantage of having the center brace removed for what its going to cost, time and money. I don't want to wish I had just bought a new one before this is over I ordered the glass today and it will probably be ready tomorrow. I decided to reseal the corners of the glass that wasn't being replaced. Since I thought I was replacing the back glass I was pretty aggressive in removing silicone to the point that I actually needed to cut away one of the end pieces and re siliconed it. I recaulked all the corners and now when I have the new piece of glass I'll install it and finish the caulking. Offroadodge gave me some dupont silicone to use, starts to skim over in about 10 mins and is really sticky, great stuff. Here are some pics. I'll be removing the super awesome blue background, luckily its a sticker and itsn't painted on. The tank is laying on its back, the really scratched piece of glass is the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Regarding bowing and the center brace if it was for myself I would tolorate an 1/8th of an inch (if for somebody else I wouldn't tolerate any bowing) and if it's just a sump you may be able to leave out the center brace if it's not going to be full when the pumps are off and the residual syphoning/draining is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 i thnk it would look good eurobraced, believe me it easy to cut glass. Give it a try or bring it over and i will cut it...looks good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm going to leave the center brace in, the way I'm installing it it won't make any difference. I also don't want to spend the money on it or take the risk when it really isn't worth it. On the other hand I have decided to eurobrace the QT tanks. That's (2) 55 gallon and (1) 75 gallon tanks that I will remove the center brace from. I have a 90 gallon to but it came with 1/2" glass and no center brace already. I want to do this because its really hard to catch fish with a center brace in the tank. I pick up the glass tomorrow to do all. BTW the glass strips, 1/4" x 48" x 3" are only $7 each cut and ready to go. I'm wondering though if I should use 3/8" bracing on the 75 gallon??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Done and I'm confident about it not leaking, total project cost around $50 and about an hour to fix it from start to finish. I could have bought a new tank for about $125 including tax and the gas to go get it. Not bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offroadodge Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Looks sweet. Good job. It wont leak with the silicone i gave you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I gotta hammer and 12 penny nails if you need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Woods Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Looks good! For the 75g, I personally would use the 3/8 glass for the bracing... You could get by with the 1/4 but you would have to be more careful while getting fish out. I tend to lean on the side of my tank some and I would be afraid of cracking the EuroBrace top if it was 1/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 Looks good! For the 75g, I personally would use the 3/8 glass for the bracing... You could get by with the 1/4 but you would have to be more careful while getting fish out. I tend to lean on the side of my tank some and I would be afraid of cracking the EuroBrace top if it was 1/4. lol, I've spent the last hour trying to find out any information about eurobracing sizing and glass thickness. I've just read over and over in other forums "don't do it!". I'm worried that it won't be enough support with the 3/8" glass and I'm worried about breaking it like you mention. I actually siliconed the 1/4" strip in today only on one side of the 75 gallon. I can cut it out and replace it with 3/8" or I can glue a second strip underneath this one. 2 strips of 1/4" were the same price than 1 strip of 3/8"...so this would give me 1/2" total, my glass place has to have 3/8" cut somewhere else so it takes longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hydro Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 I removed the center brace and euro braced the 75 gallon first. The tank has 3/8" glass and I used (2) 1/4" x 3" strips for bracing. At first I was worried 1/4" wouldn't be strong but being siliconed in on 3 sides its actually pretty solid. I spent some time looking up glass thickness for tanks and what I found was that with 3/8" it could be used rimless, which I wouldnt do. It did make me feel confident in just using the euro brace instead of a center brace. This will make it so much easier to catch fish. I'm going to make plastic lids that fit in between the bracing to prevent carpet surfing. I'll fill it up tomorrow and see if there is any bowing, I doubt there will be much. So far a $20 modification, $16 for glass and $4 for silicone. Still have (2) 55 gallons to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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