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updates on the reef vase started 2006


brandon429

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Hello I have been looking around your site and it is filled with really well engineered reef tanks and pics. My work involves long term pico reefs that are designed to test allelopathy models among stony corals and are also aimed at uncovering the physicalities that limit the lifespan of small nano and pico tanks.

I travel the boards sharing and collecting information to apply in my tanks and test the outcomes, probably the most helpful techniques Ive used from nr.com is the hamster bottle topoff system and peroxide dosing to control all algae unwanted in the tank.

The vase has coralline and sps corals removed from it regularly for trade, and its been able to model several important techniques for increasing the lifespan in pico reefs ranging .5 to 3 gallons. if you look around on the internet, its hard or impossible to find pictures of a 3 gallon or less tank even just two years old but this can start to change with a change in method.

its fun to come together to see what we've been doing wrong this last decade with our pico reefs, why were they so short lived?

The cause of short lifespan (barring hardware failure) is using methods designed for large tanks on pico reef setups and nothing else. avoiding water changes based on fear of upsetting the ecosystem was the worst carry over.

the combining factors to make a pico reef tank live indefinately:

-dosing of two part solutions relative to the age and water change regimen for a given pico reef (a certain method of dosing C balance which factors diurnal carbon dioxide cycles in the reef aquarium)

-a feeding system that overdrives the tank but does not cause nutrient problems for the tank (coupled feeding/water changes and stocking reef animals that adapt to weekly or bi weekly feeding)

-stopping or reducing evaporation to levels so that salinity control is the easiest function of the pico reef

-using non natural algae control methods so tedious water testing is not required

-methods to deal with sandbed incursion and nutrient sinking in the pico reef deeps sand bed

-occasional power flushing of the complete system without takedown, where 20x tank volume is poured through the reef to export accumulations (an opposite system to the 20 year old hands off approach where nutrient sinking is linear accumulative)

pico reef science is its own beast, not much transfers into this realm from the work of large tank care so its fun to ride a new wave of coral husbandry. If anyone is having problems with their pico reefs, or with pico reef pests like red brush algae, cyano or bryopsis, or slow coral growth, there are easy corrections to make and its based on a decade of observations from just this one system~ lets talk nano science if anyone is interested

B

here's a quick vid I made to match the pics

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about a year and a half ago the vase was featured in the article you can google "this history of pico reef biology" and thats a nice video to show comparative growth inside the vase.

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here are some interesting physicalities occurring in the vase-

-sps grown across the inside glass display a ring structure like trees do underneath the coral. its monthly, not annular

they appear to be associated with minor fluxes in ion/nutrient balances and resulting pigmentation deposits this could be helpful in discerning the age of captive grown corals

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-many corals have been desensitized to the point they can directly touch and share polyp space with competing genera.

much of the stinging/terpenoid/chemosensitive characters in corals seen in large tanks does not occur in an aged pico reef and this is intersting coral adaptation.

The bowl is controlling its own space acquisition with some corals migrating onto the glass and some coral sharing the same contact base on the substrate. Occasionally I trim or remove corals, but mostly the the vase runs naturally.

the feeding system has produced thousands of benthic communities/filter feeders and these along with sandbed fauna are a noted source of feed for the tank. If you look closely at pico reef photographs on the web, the live rock is either barren or at best with coralline. details about the feeding system become apparent when fanworms dot every surface within the tank-

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It is possible to completely seal small reef aquariums such that evaporation does not occur. Sealed tanks have been a large part of my fascination with really small ecosystems, but the vase is partially restricted.

Since only an airstone runs the vase, positive air pressure has to be vented and this occurs along minor imperfections in the lid/vase neck interface. The salinity tune of the vase reef required topoff of one ounce of water roughly every 4-5 days. Lowering of the air output for a temporary vacation can get a full week or longer...the key was having a lid that sits on the inner diameter of the vase neck so that splatter is always directed back down into the tank, saltcreep is not a problem while using an airstone in this instance.

This lid shows the corked hole used for feeding and water change access. The bowl is hardly ever moved from its location unless its being taken for a display somewhere. Usually all the work is done through this service hole using siphon hoses, coat hanger wires for coral positioning etc, its like working with a micro bonsai model but all the evaporation control is garnered from the lid. its a plastic planter dish from the garden center of wal mart, and so is the vase.

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thanks for stopping by! the only downside has having to avoid bumping the system and knocking it over all these years. footprint is a 4 inch circle...kinda wobbly

the square sealed tank was easy to transport and move as needed but the vase is really delicate, its only hobby glass Ive often wondered if the strong lighting is weakening it or not

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Wow, this is very interesting topic, thanks for taking the time to post. The tanks look much bigger until I see a hand in the picture! Amazing! The tank flushing idea was particularly interesting.

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Hi Brandon. I am very intrigued by your projects & the work you've done with these micro pico tanks.

Do you have a web page or forum thread where you've documented this in more detail? Lights, circulation, water changes, sand bed, feeding, clean up crew, dosing etc.

It's fascinating how the coral's have adapted to the micro environment and changed their normal behavior.

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No man I don't have one Im just a forum poster thats about it

but here's an exact week in the life of the bowl

Sunday morning blast feed cyclopeeze and possibly some blended mysis then wait an hour, change out all the water. While tank is drained, I soak my mini scraper (the inside portion) in peroxide so it will wick up in the scrub mat side. Then run it all around the inside of the bowl, this burns off coralline spores and green haze normal for tanks in between water changes. It prevents adherence, regardless of water params to a certain extent. The fact Im changing all the water is the rest of the extent.

Monday 1/2 cap of c balance yellow bottle added mornings before lights on

tuesday 1/2 cap of the blue bottle, same timing. To dose this amount in the pm would wipe the whole tank out at pH 9 or close to it, timing matters

wed yellow

thurs blue plus a light feed/water change sometimes if Im home

friday yellow bottle dose

sat topoff as needed blue bottle dose

Sunday blast feed and repeat. I spend 5 to 10 mins a week max on the bowl, and can skip a weeks feeding and water change as needed.

Every few months the vase is picked up, placed in my kitchen sink, someone holds it, and I power pour 20 premixed gallons of reef crystals through it pushing hard on the sandbed, catching the small incursion you can see building in the top 1/4 layer (bout time for a repeat, last one was nov 10__)

and it blast cleans the rocks. All animals inside love the treatment, they are more vigorous afterwards and the corals often show a growth spurt such that I have to cut more out.

The biology this particular timing of a week impacts:

-feed doesn't fully degrade in the system like a normal tank. This is the common practice in pico reefs that begins nutrient sinking/storage (ways to treat a pico like a big tank #1)

-the c balance is added at the lowest pH portion of the 24 hour cycle for a pico reef on a normal lighting schedule. The alternate day dosing is interchangeable with a 3x weekly dosing where both portions are added 25 mins apart on Mon/Wed/Fri for the same feeding and water change schedule.

-bioacids are produced more in the aged pico reef, such that daily water changes usually can't even keep up with the rate of alkalinity binding needed to keep coralline and sps as high as it is, as solid waste/detritus stores up, the substrate that bacteria can degrade increases, bacterial loading increases (and nightly carbon dioxide surplus) so the acid binder portion of the two part system (the blue bottle) negates the effect of dissolved carbon dioxide in the water and it helps to maintain slightly-better than NSW values for the system for an entire week, without ever testing for calcium and alk at any time in ten years.

-the coralline is the gauge that tells when an increase in dosing is needed. For the longest time my bowl ran at 1/3 capfull..when coralline starts bleaching under this weekly method, the tank is asking for more ion and you simply increase the dose.

since the water is changed weekly, at only a gallon fully, the water params don't shift like they do in large tanks where one finds imbalances between calcium and alkalinity as commonplace

the feeding combined with water changes allows every coral, pod and worm to eat fully and then all the leftover is exported. The water column left clean is sufficient to hold their waste byproducts and register only about 7 ppm nitrate at the very dirtiest, after almost two weeks without a change.

when a vase or a 3 gallon or less pico reef is new, almost no dosing is needed because the water change and feeding system will run the calcium and alk for quite some time before the system demands ion in such a way that it needs boosting. This is the critical period we see in about 1.5 years on sub-three gallon systems where they start to behave badly and crash with algae, all you have to do is start dosing at that point (or before, preventatively like I do) or start changing water in response to the drastic pH drops that are occuring at night due to coral binding of alkalinity + the assorted carbon dioxide producers who are binding it via carbonic acid production.

It is highly probable that real nitrate reduction is being ran within the bed...one test of the system was to attain real nitrate reduction in the pico reef by using a 7 inch deep sandbed, the shape of the vase promotes that bed in balance with the rest of the aquascape. The blast cleanings only get the top third of the bed, the lower portions are the original undisturbed layers and there's not alot of waste penetration because the export timing is set to occur when the bed is dirty in the top portions only, you can see the banding on the full vase shot up above showing the lighting.

the lighting is 13w pc bulbs up front, and the weak/underpowered coralife t5 12 watt fixture. will soon do led.

The corals are provided with about 440 calcium and 10-11 dkh alk with this method, using reef crystals, maintained at .023 consistently.

This schedule is upscalable, we use it for three gallon tanks all the time. Matter of fact, the dosing amount has to be lessened to 1/4 cap for a while even in a new three gallon reef simply because the ion command per unit of water isn't as much as a roaring one gallon reef. For the times the salt producer has wronged the mixing ratios of its salt (happens commonly in the industry) these levels of doser are not at precip levels so the minor variances are just absorbed in the weekly switch out of the water.

When the vase is empty of water, if there is a little stand of red brush algae or any of the common pests rather than alter my water change system I just manually remove them by adding one drop of peroxide on the algae, waiting two mins, then refill the tank and proceed. The algae dies and is only impacted in that one spot, it doesn't come back very often.

I believe the current method of algae control are wrong, clean up crews are a let down, and the bulk of internet threads are chasers of pure water that can still get an easy pest outbreak if manual methods are never considered.

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  • 3 years later...

team we are still going strong, next month ill release the 9 yr video update here is last one

this tank has approx another decade left in it until total fill. it is the longest living pico reef by twice over still running, if anyone knows of a longer one at this size holler back

negative reviews are often about the crowding...being pleasing to the eye was lost a while ago lol its a longevity science experiment in near self sustenance. what ya'll see as jam packed compared to wide open space aquascaping I see as amazing to be alive this long. the owner of the ugly dog is bound to find him cuter than the average take anyway lol

those dang mushrooms have got me pretty bad, killed half the coral. this tank is simply modeling the ups and downs of a true long term reef, again this is ok. as soon as I feel like dropping 120$ for a majano wand off amazon i can rid them. right now my bowl is undergoing a crown of thorns devestation simulant lol but the biology of the system, and the 9 yr old sandbed, is rock solid.

the sytem runs with no ato

weekly full water changes, occasional 20x water changes to eject detritus for the upcoming year. ps, some sites dont like old threads kicked up but I can't see the difference if the same subject material is still alive. from 2011-2012 not much changed, but from '11-'15 things sure have, and I wanted all the info in one pl

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It's alive! IT'S ALIVE!!! hairy.png

Can't wait to see the progress on this. I kept a fairly closed nano tank in college that did exceptionally well because it was so stable from evaporation and temperature swings and I was able to perform weekly water changes on it. I think I had better luck with it than I do with a larger system that gets neglected when I'm out of town all the time now.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 10 months later...

Hey yall were nice to bump me a year ago! I promise if id have seen that id have come back in w more same old pics lol

this system is very old now, 10th yr coming!

I recently did a total takedown and cleaning of it, cut out about 200 invading red mushrooms, then took the remaining corals and rock and put back in. So its the same system, but was blast cleaned. Id literally let the bowl grow to this after 9 yrs hands off:

people were miffed about me taking it down but I never considered it the end of the run. You simply can't let a bowl fill up and kill the corals due to spacing, ive produced hundreds of frags/coral biomass and the shrooms were killing the stony corals so surgery was needed. to me, a reef cleaned using the same rocks and existing corals that were not killed is still the same reef. We (nano reef aquarists and pico reef aquarists) are able to do highly invasive actions to the benefit of our tanks without recycling, not even a mini cycle, so to me that kind of science makes reef surgery fun and something that was predicted impossible. To save having to manually type everything I want to link a thread to our friends at Reef2Reef that shows one of my recent cleaning ventures, parting out the whole bowl on the counter to blast clean out the sandbed:

http://reef2reef.com/threads/lets-discuss-if-this-picture-holds-the-key-to-indefinite-reef-life-span.222105/#post-2561119

Ill try to watch for posts better this year lol, got so many on the web its hard to track

B

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The way I cleaned out the entire bowl and sps growth on the glass that looked like this below was to:

1. break out the rocks from the coralline holding in place and remove them into a bucket w corals, clean water. this left only water and sand and glass growths in the old vase.

2. dump the rest out, down to just a calcified vase and fill it up with vinegar for 48 hours, melting literally everything including the sps growth crowding the glass.

3. put back in clean sand, rocks, corals, 100% new water with no recycle, corals feeding again within 2 hours.

4. repeat again and document in 2026, bet :)

Its my opinion we have found the secret to indefinite reef tank life span, organic waste rejection. Even with a 6 inch dsb, this vase has no biological lifespan it can be reset as often as needed, about every 8 to 1o yrs based on prior documentation.

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yes for sure thanks for stopping by:

its the classic debate between bare bottom and sand bottom tanks, the organic waste they store. detritus, fish waste, coral waste, feeding waste, castings from molting animals all accumulated.

From the 90s on up we recall the deep sand beds were the recommended mode, and to avoid mini cycles or killing off the worms/pods they were advised to be hands off. They were touted as reducing nitrate in the o2 restricted zones, but besides that minor effect these sandbeds were by and large sinking up wastes so fast the benefit never manifested especially as tanks aged.

enter OTS, old tank syndrome. algae. dying corals, constant unpleasant growths around the tank, OPR readings dropping, all the effects of the stored up waste.

Once the hobbyists figured out that mini cycles with standard handling of live rock were false and were just ghost readings perpetuated by API ammonia test kits, the most popular ammonia kit in the entire hobby, they began to see the real risk of ammonia events was held deep within the hands off sandbed. Its stored proteins were mid rot, and if you left them alone they didn't cast that rot (ammonia) out into the water...and the hands off sandbed stores up more waste, making more rot, and eventually it will get out, especially if you knock over a live rock or something along the lines of tank work.

So to reverse that entire trend I saw developing within my mini model here, in 2006 I began blast cleaning it occasionally by setting the bowl in the sink and -hard- pouring 20 gallons of water through it, hard enough to blast sand all over my tank and literally upwell that bed many times over, like a mini nature storm.

It rejects all the organic waste before it becomes a waste sink/OTS causative. Now that my reef has been cleaned out, per that thread above I can just take it apart and literally flip the sandbed top to bottom during rinse making that sand constantly clean, like a bare bottom tank, and by preventing simple detritus its my opinion the secret to reeftank longevity is to either prevent that kind of sinking through creative means, or deal with it sternly if it occurs.

Long story short, that's my take on organic waste rejection and some recent pro articles regarding old tank syndrome seem to not disagree ill post some

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he doesn't use the exact same descriptions, but I get the notion that detritus was the heart of the mention here too

http://reefbuilders.com/2015/11/07/tank-syndrome-revisited/

One of the very oldest reeftanks anyone can find online is Paul B's 40 yr old one, his sandbed technique is specifically an organic waste rejection technique (reverse under gravel filter, plus rip cleaning occasionally)

we believe the mass loss of reef tanks not getting past that ten yr mark is mainly due to organic storages if not other things like hardware failure or disease loss etc.

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