Dead Fish in Live Rock

[Eric Alvarado]

I had a yellow eye kole die up underneath our live rock. It's a pretty good sized fish (about 3.5"), in order to get him out I would need to remove and distrurb all the live rock. Should I remove the rock and distirb the corals and other fish, or let the clean up crew work on him?

[wa1tx]

If it were my tank I would get him out.

[+Hydro]

Let the CUC have it, you can do a water change in a couple of days if needed. If you take out all the rock and stir up the sand you will probably release more nitrates and phosphates as the dead fish will create. Just test your phophates and nitrates in a couple of days to make sure its ok, and if not do a water change.

[Bry]

I agree with Hydro, especially if this happened in your 125g tank. You do have CUC so whatever is left of a fish that small can't really have much affect in a tank that large. If it was in one of your much smaller tanks I still wouldn't move rock, I'd just do a few water changes over 3 -4 days.

[wa1tx]

I don't like looking at it main reason I would get it out, bit I also fight phosphates which is the second reason

[Timfish]

I'm with Hydro too. I don't like leaving anything dead in my tanks but the disruption of getting it out sounds like a case of the cure being worse than the disease. Keep an eye on it, there's a chance somebody might move it to where you could hook it with a coat hanger or net it out. If you're industrious AND THE BODY IS STILL FRESH you might try using a power head to move it (at least out of sight ). If the body has already started to decompose DO NOT DO THIS it will just spread gunk around which is definitely a bad thing to do. As always water changes are a good thing.

[Eric Alvarado]

Thanks for the help. The fish is back out of sight at the bottom base middle. I knew he had died, so took a while to flashlight around the back of the live rock to find him. so unsightly isn't a big deal, I was more concerned about the decay and nitrate spike.

I did recently have the tank drilled and added a 30G sump, so there is more water volume than before. Going to run my water tests today, and maybe do an extra 10-15G water change mid week.

Thanks

[+Hydro]

Testing the water today won't make much difference, it could take days or a week to be a problem if it is going to be.

[Eric Alvarado]

Testing the water today won't make much difference, it could take days or a week to be a problem if it is going to be.

I wanted to test today to see where I was starting from, to see if there is a drastic rise. That way I could more proactively do a couple water changes to stay on top of it.

Thanks, appreciate the help.

[+Hydro]

Testing the water today won't make much difference, it could take days or a week to be a problem if it is going to be.

I wanted to test today to see where I was starting from, to see if there is a drastic rise. That way I could more proactively do a couple water changes to stay on top of it.

Thanks, appreciate the help.

That's a great idea. Just out of curiosity will you post your results? It would be nice to know what kind of impact that size fish can make on that size system.

[RotaryGeek]

I had the exact same thing happen in my 180. A 3.5" yellow eye kole tang died from ich, and I didn't think it was that big of a deal. It spiked my ammonia and that coupled with ichbon my other fish just about wiped out my livestock. Went from 13 fish to 3 in less than a week. With water changes. Just a helpful (hopefully) warning.

[+Hydro]

I had the exact same thing happen in my 180. A 3.5" yellow eye kole tang died from ich, and I didn't think it was that big of a deal. It spiked my ammonia and that coupled with ichbon my other fish just about wiped out my livestock. Went from 13 fish to 3 in less than a week. With water changes. Just a helpful (hopefully) warning.

Good to know, I wouldn't have expected that to be a problem either. So how quickly did the parameters get bad? Did you have a good CUC? I recently had a couple of anthias get stuck between my fish trap and my glass and died . As soon as I freed the bodies they hit the sand and literally within an hour both bodies were consumed. I assume if they are eaten that they wouldn't effect the parameters as much, right?

[RotaryGeek]

I guess it was about 3 days. I was working so I didn't really notice that he was dead until it was way too late. I have probably 50 crabs, 2 conch's, sand sifting stars, Nass snails, turbo snails.

[Eric Alvarado]

Good information, glad I posted.

Well, here we go.

No idea how many CUC I have left in the tank. About 4 weeks ago I broke down the tank and took it to Shane to have it drilled. I wanted to remove that big in tank filter and get more filtration. I also was given a sump from someone (actually, Hyrdo, he says he knows you well - the owner of primus networks) so I could get the tank a little more top end. Still wrestling with lighting, but that is a story for another day. That said, I lost a bunch of snails and such. I had 10 Super Turbo nassarius and 3 narrasius in there at one time, I think after all the tank moving (I went from a 55, to the 125G, then drilled the 125G) I think I have about 6 -8 left. So I dropped in 10 red legs yesterday. Do you think that is enough or do I need a lot more? I was looking at reef cleaners, and they tend to throw a ton of stuff into the tank. Also a cleaner shrimp and a pepermint shrimp.

Parameters:

Salinity: 1.024

Alk: 3.19 (this seemed high) / dKH: 8.8

Ph: 8.0-8.2 (**** color codes)

Nitrates: about 10-12

Calcium: 550

Mag: 1550

Phos: 0.03

Oxygen: 5.0

Figured I would keep an eye on PH, Nitrates,Alk, and Oxygen.

For Bry's problem: perhaps something else killed the fish, and the fish that died and was left was just the first fish to succumb to contaniment or a problem.

[Derek]

This may sound morbid, but are you able to get to him with a kabob stick or a bent wire hanger? I have had to "fish" out dead fish from behind my rocks using all sorts of non-PETA friendly methods.

If you want to go humane you could use a small pump and a hose to "flush" him out from under the rocks. It would only disturb your sand bed.

[Eric Alvarado]

So second test, guess I will add amoninia.

PH: 7.8 - 8.0 (Have I mentioned I hate color comparisions, I just can't read this crap).

Alk: 3.3 / dKH 9.0 (it does appear to be going UP)

Oyx: 5.0

Nitrate: 10-12ish (about the same - again, hard to tell with this ATI test kit).

Amonia: 0

Just did a 15 G water change. Will retest tomorrow.

[Eric Alvarado]

This may sound morbid, but are you able to get to him with a kabob stick or a bent wire hanger? I have had to "fish" out dead fish from behind my rocks using all sorts of non-PETA friendly methods.

If you want to go humane you could use a small pump and a hose to "flush" him out from under the rocks. It would only disturb your sand bed.

Maybe, not with a coat hanger, but maybe with a long curved stick. At this point, I can't even see him. We could barely see his head behind the rock (from the top, there is a narrow opening between the rock wall and the back glass). I tried fishing him out, but only managed to push him father back into the rock. At this point, we are 3 days with him like that, not sure if he is still attached or if he is ready to fall apart. I can't tell if/what my CUC are doing with it at this point since the spot is completely hidden.

[+Hydro]

No idea how many CUC I have left in the tank. About 4 weeks ago I broke down the tank and took it to Shane to have it drilled. I wanted to remove that big in tank filter and get more filtration. I also was given a sump from someone (actually, Hyrdo, he says he knows you well - the owner of primus networks) so I could get the tank a little more top end. Still wrestling with lighting, but that is a story for another day. That said, I lost a bunch of snails and such. I had 10 Super Turbo nassarius and 3 narrasius in there at one time, I think after all the tank moving (I went from a 55, to the 125G, then drilled the 125G) I think I have about 6 -8 left. So I dropped in 10 red legs yesterday. Do you think that is enough or do I need a lot more? I was looking at reef cleaners, and they tend to throw a ton of stuff into the tank. Also a cleaner shrimp and a pepermint shrimp.

Well isn't this a small world . Trent and I were roomates in college and 10 yrs ago he started Primus in the living room of our rent house lol. He sold the company about a month ago, now the company is called white glove industries I think.

That is a pretty small cleanup crew, I would get some blue leg hermits. They are much cheaper when you buy 100 or more, I get mine on Ebay. Its not going to help you with this problem but in general you should have more than that I think. I put about 500 mini hermits in my tank along with the ones that I have now and it seem to be the right amount. I'm not sure how many to suggest but as far as species go I would get the mini blue leg hermits, they never get big enough to knock stuff over.

[+Hydro]

This may sound morbid, but are you able to get to him with a kabob stick or a bent wire hanger? I have had to "fish" out dead fish from behind my rocks using all sorts of non-PETA friendly methods.

If you want to go humane you could use a small pump and a hose to "flush" him out from under the rocks. It would only disturb your sand bed.

I had to use a wire hanger to get out a stuck hippo tang out once, it wasn't pretty but I got it out.

[Eric Alvarado]

Well isn't this a small world . Trent and I were roomates in college and 10 yrs ago he started Primus in the living room of our rent house lol. He sold the company about a month ago, now the company is called white glove industries I think.

Yup, I am running his operations now, I am the director of managed services for White Glove Technologies. So I work with Trent on a daily basis.

Will see about adding to the CUC, I've never had all that much for CUC to eat, so I was always concerned about having too many.

[mFrame]

Small world, I lost my Yellow Eyed Kole Tang last week. Saw a large mucous blob at the bottom of one rock and when we investigated my serpent star was trying to hoard the body. We were able to net him out with most of the cloud around him but it was a mess. I would strongly advise for a cleaner shrimp or serpent star, they'd both be strong enough to pull the body around and maybe make it more accessible. My star is one of my chief cleaners in the thank.

Since then I'm experiencing an outbreak of ich in my tank, something I haven't seen in over a year. Everyone is eating well so I'm just keeping up on water changes and feeding everyone. Hopefully he'll be the only loss, though I haven't seen my tiny mysis-eating target mandarin in the last few days.

[+Hydro]

Are you running UV? Are you soaking the food in garlic and vitamins? I swear by these things. I have battled ich many times, the other day I added some marine SAT and had to turn off the UV off for 24 hrs. By the next day I had black ich showing up on my tangs, I turned off the UV and the black ich was gone overnight. I usually have white ich on at least one fish all the time, not a lot, just a couple spots here and there. I never worry because I have the UV keeping it under control. It usually pops up when I add new fish, the stress keeps ich hanging on.

[RotaryGeek]

I soak myfood in garlic xtreme, but I wonder if I'm doing it wrong. I take a chunk of frozen home made food and put it in a glass of tank water to defrost. I put a couple of dropsnot the garlic in the glass while it's defrosting, then when it's all broke up (usually a couple of minutes) I use a turkey Baster to feed with. You see anything wrong with how I do it?

[Eric Alvarado]

Update on water parameters.

I did a 15G water change on Sunday.

PH: 7.8 - 8.0 (Have I mentioned I hate color comparisions, I just can't read this crap).

Alk: 3.3 / dKH 9.0

Oyx: 5.0

Nitrate: 15-20ish (hard to tell with this ATI test kit).

Amonia: 0

Also seeing Cyno growth.

[+Hydro]

I soak myfood in garlic xtreme, but I wonder if I'm doing it wrong. I take a chunk of frozen home made food and put it in a glass of tank water to defrost. I put a couple of dropsnot the garlic in the glass while it's defrosting, then when it's all broke up (usually a couple of minutes) I use a turkey Baster to feed with. You see anything wrong with how I do it?

I usually put it in small cup, put in some tank water to cover the food, add 3 drops of garlic, and 3 drops of Zoe and then I let it sit overnight or until the end of the day.