Overflow issues maybe? too many microbubbles

[Myvirtue]

Im having some issues with my overflow. My overflow is in the corner with 1 drain and 1inch pipe plumbing. It took me forever to get my mag 12 and my overflow to work together. I had to drill 10 different caps to make it work and the hole is very small. the hole isnt much bigger than a nail. Now that im able to maximize my pump and overflow correctly. Im having issues with micro bubbles everywhere in my tank. It didnt start until i messed around with the overflow. Now my return lines are constantly shooting out micro bubbles and there all in my sump and passing through my 3stage baffles. My current overflow is setup with a 1 inch "T" and a 90 facing down on the side of the "T" and a cap with a small hole to let air in. I dont know to do and im starting to get bubbles forming on my rocks... help! lol

[Myvirtue]

[offroadodge]

i cant tell 4sure but the cap on top of the overflow down pipe should be drilled in the top, like a 1/4 hole to let it breath.

[Myvirtue]

its drilled... probly cant see it well. but i already posted it was drilled. i had to make it small to keep up with my pump

Edited January 1, 2011 by Myvirtue

[DaJMasta]

I'm not really seeing the baffle/bubbletrap design, but my guess is that there is your problem. Do you have a series of 3 baffles - one over one under one over in terms of water passage - somewhere in the sump? Are they spaced far enough apart for the given flow amount? Is the baffle the water travels under low enough to actually stop many bubbles? Is the fall of water over the baffle introducing more bubbles?

Is the water height differential at the overflow great enough to be generating all these bubbles in the first place? Does turning down the pump's flow help? Have you considered adding rocks or something for the water to 'land on' when entering the sump?

That's a lot of questions.... but all things that could potentially be doing it.

[mhart032]

have you tried a filter sock where the overflow dumps into the sump? that should clear it up.

[Myvirtue]

im starting to think something is loose in my return line plumbing and its sucking in air. heres my sump. I got the dimesions from a reef central and the design. My water lvl is a tad high. Ive had this sump almost 4 months never had any bubbles...

Edited January 1, 2011 by Myvirtue

[caferacermike]

I asked you yesterday if you got a bigger pump when you upsized the tank but we never got back in touch. Chatzy now. I'm still saying that the baffles are backwards. There is no place that the bubbles will be purged from in that pic. The bubbles travel down, under, and back up yet the water line is such that the bubbles are never forced to the top. They are always under the water line.

[caferacermike]

I'm attaching a badly drawn idea of what I'm trying to say. You'll see that the inlet chamber is on the right and the pump chamber would be on the left. Non of what I'm saying is "factual science", it's just what I've come to understand over the years. By having the "middle" chamber it has an actual place to remove the bubbles.

If your system was not making bubbles before you got your overflow synced, the plumbing wouldn't be your problem now. What is happening now is that your overflow is correctly mixing the air to water ratio and trapping microbubbles. These are just flowing right on through the trap because the water is so heavily mixed and your pump is moving water very quickly, thus the contact time through your current set up is not long enough to purge the bubbles.

I bet if you slowed the pump it would go back to the way it was before you got it dialed in. The problem here is you want it to run as it is now that it is dialed in.

[Myvirtue]

its a mag 12 and its still not cranked open 100%. Same pump ive had. i would say maybe 90%. I had the overflow dialed in with a ball valve on top but it was too big so thats why i went out and bought a few caps and started drilling. It wasnt making bubbles then. Ive noticed its starting to calm down some. Well if my baffles are backwards i dont think im going to change them anytime soon. I thought i did sufficent enough research before i built it. I will try to find the thread from reef central that i got the idea from.

Edited January 1, 2011 by Myvirtue

[Myvirtue]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=993929. Robb referred me and the person that made this thread helped me with the dimesions of my baffles

[pbnj]

The foam filters they sell for the Mag pump intakes should take care of that in a jiff.

[Myvirtue]

i could probly buy that spong filter anywhere... but how would u keep it from getting sucked in? i was thinking about using some blue filter pads and sticking it around the inlet and putting rubberbands around it

[pbnj]

It's a huge foam block, maybe 2x3x4, so no chance of it getting sucked into the intake.

[Myvirtue]

ok thanks!

[mFrame]

I have almost exactly the same setup, and here are two things I notice:

1) When Mike says the baffles are backwards, I think he means that you have the tank situated backwards. Currently you have the overflow on the right (three baffles) the return in the middle (single wall) and what appears to be a fuge on the left. Instead, you want: the overflow (single wall) fuge in the middle (three baffles) and then return. Most of your bubbles come from the overflow, so I've found that running the overflow into a filter sock and then over the single wall eliminates most of my overflow bubbles. The trip through the fuge with macro-algae gets rid of more, then the pass through the bubble trap eliminates most of the rest. (picture of my setup attached - you can see the filter sock on the left of the picture but not the actual overflow line). You'll also notice that my return line has a T with valve that allows me to divert water back into the fuge section. Like you I also had problems matching the pump return rate to the overflow drain rate, this valve allows me to adjust the return rate until it is just right.

2) I have the same mag return pump, and notice that you are not using the mag foam filter that PBNJ mentions. He's right, it's a large foam block that fits on the intake of the Mag, it'll trap any remaining bubbles and keep them from being sucked into the pump and returned to your tank. This seems to be the only piece of equipment you're missing. I got mine at the Aquadome for about $15, you'll want to buy 2 as it occasionally has to be cleaned and it's easier to swap them out than try to keep reusing the same one mid-water change.

3) I also have the same corner overflow as you and tried using the Durso overflow configuration you have. I keep getting a "toilet flush" surge sound from it, so I setup a Hofer Gurglebuster Hoffer gurglebuster. The most difficult thing setting up the Durso is getting the air volume right (as you've seen). The Hofer is much easier to control. and can be made with <$5 in parts.

Good luck, and let me know if any of this helped!

[offroadodge]

so i dont know if you have seen how Precision Marine does there sumps but here is mine. I have the pre-filter socks on the drain and the filter pads on the return pumps. Ive never had any bubble issues, i think if you move ur equipment like mine is your problems will be solved. Put the skimmer on one side and the return pump on the other side (not in middle). JMO allu would have to do is move your return to the other end of your sump. Worth a try.

[afgun]

To spell it out more clearly... to help purge bubbles, the water should flow through the bubble trap and then over the edge into the sump for return to the tank. Since your water level appears to be an inch or so over the bubble trap, it's not nearly as effective.

If you want to feed the fuge as well as your bubble trap, I might suggest putting a tee into your overflow output with a ball valve to control feed to the refugium section, and lowering the water by a couple of inches in the sump. I'd also (personally) move the heater to a higher flow area of the sump, if you have room.