Torch coral in peril

[mFrame]

Over the last three weeks I've noticed something very strange with my Torch coral (approximately 12 heads). All of the fleshy heads are doing fine, but I've noticed that something appears to be "eating away" the bone in the region just below each head. This damaged has now crept up to where it did affect, and apparently kill, two of the heads.

I've noticed my blue-leg hermits sitting on the worn, exposed spots and apparently eating. Several of the heads are now precariously standing with just a fragment of the skeleton supporting them but the heads are still open, waving, and eating. Not believing it, but not willing to risk it, I've been removing any hermits that sit on the skeleton for a while and putting them into my nano. The damage appears to be continuing.

The night before last I found a small white starfish (1/4" diam) on one of the branches, but he's the only one like that I've seen and I don't believe he could have caused all this damage.

Last night my son swears that he could see small, filament like worms amongst the torch tentacles on some of the heads and he thinks that is the culprit. I watched for 30 mins and never saw what he says he sees.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of something like this on a torch coral? I can understand the flesh being targeted by something, but the skeleton?

[cmanning]

Wish you're able to provide a pic. Can you pull the colony out and inspect more closely....maybe there's a boring calcareous worm in one of the branch and you're unable to see...since the flesh is always expanded.

[+dapettit]

Might do a Lugois (spelling?) dip. . .

[pbnj]

I don't think it's the hermits; they're probably just scavenging the dead/dying tissue.

What kind of fish do you have? Sometimes, it's the least suspect of fish. I have a Purple Tang that consumed a whole Trach brain and several heads of frogspawn.

Also, any sweeper tentacles nearby?

[mFrame]

I don't think it's the hermits; they're probably just scavenging the dead/dying tissue.

What kind of fish do you have? Sometimes, it's the least suspect of fish. I have a Purple Tang that consumed a whole Trach brain and several heads of frogspawn.

Also, any sweeper tentacles nearby?

Can post pics tonight, but the damage is in all of the branches. There is not actual tissue that I know of in the skeleton, but the hermits stay all over it. I originally thought that torches had living tissue connecting all the heads within the skeleton, but each head is fine even when it's base is nearly severed from the overall colony.

No sweeper tentacles or corals of any sort are close to this guy. He's at the top of the tank by a powerhead, nearest thing to him is about 8".

Tank inhabitants:

(1)Purple Tang

several Chromis

(1)5" lawnmower blenny (he is fairly new and damage didn't occur until after he arrived)

scooter blenny

(2) flame hawk

(2) Clarkii clowns

(1) coral beauty

(2) pajama cardinals

blue leg hermits, 2 emerald craps, fighting conche, 1 marble sea star

[mFrame]

Wish you're able to provide a pic. Can you pull the colony out and inspect more closely....maybe there's a boring calcareous worm in one of the branch and you're unable to see...since the flesh is always expanded.

We pulled the colony out last night to inspect it when we removed the starfish, I didn't see anything like a worm on it. I'm googling calcareous worm now...

[+dapettit]

is there a brown jelly looking stuff on it.

[mFrame]

There is a post on wetwebmedia that seems to describe what is happening to the skeleton, but in a fungia:

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fungiidfaqs.htm

"the coral begins an active decalcification process whereby the injured area of skeleton dissolves and separates through the formation of certain biochemical controls and enzymes. These cellular processes seem to initiate a calcium gradient where the intracellular calcium concentration is actively pumped out, allowing a net efflux of calcium from the skeleton. The

actions of the normally present burrowing algae, Cliona sp., is then able to initiate further decalcification. Following the process, the result of which is akin to the coral "cutting off its own arm, the remaining fragments of skeleton with attached tissue separate from the parent colony and move outward to begin their own solitary life"

[mFrame]

There is a post on wetwebmedia that seems to describe what is happening to the skeleton, but in a fungia:

http://www.wetwebmed...fungiidfaqs.htm

"the coral begins an active decalcification process whereby the injured area of skeleton dissolves and separates through the formation of certain biochemical controls and enzymes. These cellular processes seem to initiate a calcium gradient where the intracellular calcium concentration is actively pumped out, allowing a net efflux of calcium from the skeleton. The

actions of the normally present burrowing algae, Cliona sp., is then able to initiate further decalcification. Following the process, the result of which is akin to the coral "cutting off its own arm, the remaining fragments of skeleton with attached tissue separate from the parent colony and move outward to begin their own solitary life"

My son took some pics today (after catching another one of the starfish on the torch). He removed it, pics attached.

[Timfish]

Not to make light of your misfortune but this sounds like a fascinating problem. I'm with the above opinions that the hermits and starfish are not the cause but just scavanging a meal. Have you tried the Lugal's dip mentioned above? Seems like that would cause minimal stress to the torch. This is shooting in the dark but if it's not affecting the tissue would it be possible to apply Lugal's directly to the skeleton without getting any on the tissue, wait a minute then rinse it off in a bucket of aquarium water? From what you found on Wetweb it seems your coral has a good chance of recovery.

[+dapettit]

Mike,

I could be wrong but the star fish looks like it's related to the chocolate star. And we all know those aren't reef safe.

[cmanning]

Another thing I notice on the pic...what kind of snail is that on your torch??

[mFrame]

Mike,

I could be wrong but the star fish looks like it's related to the chocolate star. And we all know those aren't reef safe.

One of the first thoughts I had when my son sent me the pic, but in person it was about 1/4" and the spots aren't raised like on a chocolate chip. He looks more like a baby sand-sifting star, but was apparently a hitchhiker so he went straight to the sump.

[mFrame]

Another thing I notice on the pic...what kind of snail is that on your torch??

I believe it's a Nerite, I have Nerites, zigzag periwinkles, ceriths, nassarius in that tank.

As someone else mentioned, I'm really leaning toward all the activity on the skeleton (hermits, snails, stars) being more of a "clean up effort" rather than the direct attack.

Are the pictures clear of the damage or should I send anything more detailed?

And yeah, the last thing I'll mention is that I'll post water params when I get in from work today. Anyone think that a PH fluctuation could cause the skeleton to be dissolving?

[johnoburns]

Mike have you considered fragging the torch and putting it in different areas of the tank (or moving a piece to a quarantine tank)? This would be more of a last result if you can't figure out the cause. I would vote for dipping them first.

Here are a couple thoughts on what that might buy you.

If there is something visible living in the skeleton and eating it, this might allow you to see it in the fragging process.

If after separating them, only 1 frag continues to have the problem, you could study what is different. Then you could address that, or worst case remove that 1 torch from the tank.

[mFrame]

Mike have you considered fragging the torch and putting it in different areas of the tank (or moving a piece to a quarantine tank)? This would be more of a last result if you can't figure out the cause. I would vote for dipping them first.

Here are a couple thoughts on what that might buy you.

If there is something visible living in the skeleton and eating it, this might allow you to see it in the fragging process.

If after separating them, only 1 frag continues to have the problem, you could study what is different. Then you could address that, or worst case remove that 1 torch from the tank.

They don't seem any worse today, but I've definitely considered it. Several heads are almost completely separated so there really isn't any risk other than I liked having a big colony. I'd hate to lose them all though, so probably should hedge my bets.

[mFrame]

is there a brown jelly looking stuff on it.

No, I've fought brown jelly before. This is not attacking/effecting the actual flesh of the coral until the skeleton gets destroyed directly underneath it.