John and Brian, I Found a stainless steel U-shape very sharp pin about 2'' long used by quilters that I pierced the base of a leather. I then glued downed the two pointed ends to disk that I could stand on edge in rock crevice. Looks good after a couple days. Who knows after a week. Dip pin, cutters, cutting board before I started. I think you have to frag. like you cook. clean, clean anyway that's what your demo inspired. Judith