Salinity out of control

[Beaux]

Any input would help. Tank is going on 2 years now. All my mesurments are right on par. Double and trippled checked my numbers with 2 different LFS.

Tank is a 20L nano. 2  clowns 1 blue damsel. I do weekly water changes. I decided about 6 months ago to remove to top glass because I thought my lighting would improve by doing so. Which only increases my top offs.

However my salinity jumps every week. 1.035 and up. I am not using any water now but RO. I have tested each fill and there is 0 salinity. My top offs are RO only as well. I tried gradually to reduce it by just doing top offs, and cutting way down on water changes by adding RO to the LFS salt water that I buy from River City Aquatics.

I only saw increases in my salinity keeping at that 1.035+. Hince the reason im only doing RO for refilling after my weekly cleanings. I do not have salt deposits anywhere on the tank. Non near the filters, tank rim, anywhere. I thought that might be why kept running so high, but there is none.

What other reasons could there be that the salinity keeps creeping back up? Nothin new added since our last frag swap. It is affecting all my corals, except my torches. 

Any ideas or suggestions? I know my gear is is not off. The LFS get the same readings as I do, and even took it in to see if it needed to be calibrated but it was not off. As of this month I have lost 3 expensive pieces. The lasest one that died today, I cant remember the name, but it had a calcium base and the top was blueish looked like a smooth wrinkled  mushroom.  The polys are withdrawing, its one big piece where now only 5 to 10 open up. The other 30 or so dont open, unless they do at night and I dont see.

Is there some type of diy kit that would keep my salinity in check? But mostly why does it keep spiking?

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

Do you have an automatic top off in your tank for evaporation? What are you using to check your salinity? When you do a water change, do you measure exactly what you take out and what you replace? Do you check the salinity of the replacement water and the salinity of your tank right before and right after a water change?

[Cdklos]

Any input would help. Tank is going on 2 years now. All my mesurments are right on par. Double and trippled checked my numbers with 2 different LFS.
Tank is a 20L nano. 2  clowns 1 blue damsel. I do weekly water changes. I decided about 6 months ago to remove to top glass because I thought my lighting would improve by doing so. Which only increases my top offs.
However my salinity jumps every week. 1.035 and up. I am not using any water now but RO. I have tested each fill and there is 0 salinity. My top offs are RO only as well. I tried gradually to reduce it by just doing top offs, and cutting way down on water changes by adding RO to the LFS salt water that I buy from River City Aquatics.
I only saw increases in my salinity keeping at that 1.035+. Hince the reason im only doing RO for refilling after my weekly cleanings. I do not have salt deposits anywhere on the tank. Non near the filters, tank rim, anywhere. I thought that might be why kept running so high, but there is none.
What other reasons could there be that the salinity keeps creeping back up? Nothin new added since our last frag swap. It is affecting all my corals, except my torches. 
Any ideas or suggestions? I know my gear is is not off. The LFS get the same readings as I do, and even took it in to see if it needed to be calibrated but it was not off. As of this month I have lost 3 expensive pieces. The lasest one that died today, I cant remember the name, but it had a calcium base and the top was blueish looked like a smooth wrinkled  mushroom.  The polys are withdrawing, its one big piece where now only 5 to 10 open up. The other 30 or so dont open, unless they do at night and I dont see.
Is there some type of diy kit that would keep my salinity in check? But mostly why does it keep spiking?

Does the water that you buy from the LFS test correct before you put it in your tank? Maybe the container that you use to take the water to the LFS is throwing something off? You can borrow my salinity meter and double check with that if you like.


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[Cdklos]

Does the water that you buy from the LFS test correct before you put it in your tank? Maybe the container that you use to take the water to the LFS is throwing something off? You can borrow my salinity meter and double check with that if you like.


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Do you have a water softener? A water softener will increase sodium by about 15%, if your top off membrane has fouled out you could be getting it from there. Have you checked your top off RO?


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[Beaux]

3 hours ago, Gig 'em @ NDstructible said:

Do you have an automatic top off in your tank for evaporation? What are you using to check your salinity? When you do a water change, do you measure exactly what you take out and what you replace? Do you check the salinity of the replacement water and the salinity of your tank right before and right after a water change?

No I dont have a topper, i use a refractometer, i use a spot in the rim line of the tank, and i do check before and after. When I was diluting i took it down to 1, by the next week its back at 1.03 ish range. When I get a new jug refilled i make it as close to the range of my tank as i can. I keep a weekly diary of my testing. After todays cleaning/water change it is 1.027. In a weeks time i will have done 3 or more top offs with RO only. By this time next week, like every time before it has shot back up to 1.035 -1.037 range.

[Beaux]

2 hours ago, Cdklos said:

Do you have a water softener? A water softener will increase sodium by about 15%, if your top off membrane has fouled out you could be getting it from there. Have you checked your top off RO?


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No water softners, i buy both premade salt and RO at from my LFS (river city aquatics), I do check the salinity and get it as close to match my tanks salinity. Top off membrane? I dont have any equipment just me pouring the water into my tank.

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

So you mix your salt water at home?

[Beaux]

No Gig'em I only buy the premixed premade salt water from my LFS. For the entire month I have not added and salt or saltwater, only RO.

[skot]

Id think its more of a stability issue. its going to swing around if you have to manually top it off. As you said removing the lid increase the evaporation and that is going to lead to high salinity. I guess the other question is when are you taking these readings? id also double check the imaginary line your going off for the correct water level. That may have changed. 

Id suggest you reevaluate whats good. when you have some time at home top off and set everything where you think its good. Wait a few hours and take a reading. is it high or low?

i dont know how your set up is, but i know ive had to readjust what my correct water line should be. Say a mix gets skewed or that a change happened to water volume. Example is say you added a lot of rock or corals that displaces water.  that line you used in the past is not valid anymore. 

[Beaux]

Thats something I have not considered Skot. However would it make that much impact over 3 very small frags? That along with the plugs weight as well. But again, now I am sitting at 1.027, and if this pattern remains like it has for the last 3 weeks, when I do my clean this time next week it will have shot back up once again to the 1.035 ish. I check before and after so I know I have put the level back where it should be. Maybe I will do a daily monitor instead of just the twice a week? See if and when it starts to rise and look for further indicators. TBH i just dont know what i would be looking for.

[skot]

Think of it this way... every second your water evaporates your salinity goes up. Depending on how much you evaporate dictates how often you need to add water. That is the purpose of ATO auto top offs. it does it multiple times ago depending how how much water goes missing. 

once i got my imaginary water line dialed in, id add water daily to keep it there as much as possible. its just part of the maintenance of owning a tank. 

I have a feeling you need to add water more often then once a week. from how im reading it you are only doing it once and seeing the effect a weeks worth of water slowly disappearing into the air. 

[Beaux]

No, i do the water changes once a week. I top off 2 or 3 times a week. The pump fans are set just right, and if i hear the room air getting in the mix, then top off with the RO. I also think I will put the top back on. That may be playing a part in this as well. I will let this run for a few weeks and see if it helps.

Thank you all for your advice and input. I hope with this further knowledge I can get my tank back on track.

[Vernon Saunders]

You may need to top off daily small amounts instead of 2-3 times weekly.

[ShawnM]

I would go with an ato helps keep things more stable and take some strain off the back


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[Beaux]

Auto toppers are out of my league here. What all is required? I googled it and all i see are the detection switches. Doesn't this involve the switch/monitor, extra tubeing, sub pump, extra tank with filtration and aeration?

Kit, or diy? Is there a link to preferred kit/brand? Would the investment be worth it for a nano tank? 20L.

[+Dogfish]

Lets say 3 weeks ago you did a water change and your salinity was at 1.025.  After 3 weeks of RO topping off, your water level is at the same spot then your salinity should be at 1.025. The only way to increase the salinity is to add salt or reduce the water level. I would check my RO top off water before adding it to the tank. Not that I have mixed up my containers before, no not me ......

[Beaux]

Again great ideas Dogfish. But I do a full spectrum test of my RO before every use. I don't mix any salt myself, that is purchased as well. I only used the RO to dilute the salt jug if it's higher than my tanks salinity level.

I did all the testing again a few hours after a water change with RO only, and again last night before bed. It was 1.027 each time. Now this morning, first thing did another check again and it's on the rise back at 1.029. Im going to take my meter and water to have tested at 2 different LFS to see if they are getting the same readings as I am. This is just baffling to me because its going on the 4th week of only using RO, no salt and it just keeps rising.  

[jolt]

Do you dose anything for calcium and alkalinity?  For example, dosing 2 part can raise salinity ...

[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

Dosing magnesium can also mess with your salinity levels. As far as ATO goes, you can go the old school technique and just use a digital timer to turn on every day. Jus travel to dial it in according to how quickly your water evaporates any given month.

[Beaux]

I only have soft corals, so I only dose the iodine once a week. I have the LFS check for the calcium and other stuff that I do not have in my kit. They tell me the numbers are great. Do I need to be checking and adding those things for a soft coral tank?

I am very grateful for all these suggestions,  and you guys sticking with me on this.

I am waiting on them to open now to recheck my readings and looking into the auto top offs. I just don't know enough about them, what brand is good, which would be best for such a small tank ect. But it sounds like a good option to stay regular and not having to hurt myself lifting that heavy jug from my wheelchair. Lol.

[ShawnM]

Smart micro ato is a all in one the only thing you need is a container to hold the water in ( I use this one on my 150 gal tank and works perfect ) and it’s only $100

Then There is the tunze which I would say is the most well known on the market


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[Sierra Bravo]

Again great ideas Dogfish. But I do a full spectrum test of my RO before every use. I don't mix any salt myself, that is purchased as well. I only used the RO to dilute the salt jug if it's higher than my tanks salinity level.
I did all the testing again a few hours after a water change with RO only, and again last night before bed. It was 1.027 each time. Now this morning, first thing did another check again and it's on the rise back at 1.029. Im going to take my meter and water to have tested at 2 different LFS to see if they are getting the same readings as I am. This is just baffling to me because its going on the 4th week of only using RO, no salt and it just keeps rising.  

Would you clarify a summary? If I've read this thread correctly you have a 20 liter tank (5 gallons). Your refractometer has been tested as correctly calibrated. Water changes have been done weekly in the past using LFS water, which you had to dilute from 1.027 to 1.025. You top off 2 to 3 times per week using fresh water only always back to the same line which you fill the tank after water changes. For a solid month you have only used RO fresh water for water changes in an effort to return the salinity to a lower level. Despite the addition of fresh water only for a month, you continue to see increases in salinity. Is that all correct?

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[Beaux]

Ok first, my mistake, I didn't mean liter, my 20L is a twenty gallon long. Sorry for the confusion. 

Other than the tank size differences yes your summary is on point.

[Sierra Bravo]

Ok first, my mistake, I didn't mean liter, my 20L is a twenty gallon long. Sorry for the confusion. 
Other than the tank size differences yes your summary is on point.

The advice to install an ato would be on point regardless of your issue; it will make your life a little easier while keeping the salinity much more stable.

As you describe the situation, however, does not make a lot of sense. One thing I would do is start getting some accurate data going. Order a bottle of refractometer calibration fluid and make sure to calibrate it before testing. Mine generally needs to have an adjustment made once a week or so. Put a logbook next to your tank and start testing salinity and temperature each morning and evening for a week. Keep a jug of RO fresh water nearby and fill the tank to the same spot every day around the same time. Note how much fresh water you're adding in the log. If you do a water change note the quantity changed and the salinity of the water you are putting in.

As you know salt doesn't enter the system unless we put it in there. It's not rocket science; something is not adding up here and maybe keeping some accurate, consistent data will help point out the problem.



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[Gig 'em @ NDstructible]

I have a feeling it's a matter of putting in more new salt water than you take out during a water change, or the salinity is higher in the LFS water then you think. Do you mix up the salt water before you add it? Sometimes newly mixed saltwater that has sat for a while will have a different specific gravity at the top vs the bottom.

Have you ruled out anyone in the house playing pranks on you? [emoji38]