Wade Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I need your help! Push has come to shove and we need to finalize the house plans this week. I'll have a built in tank in the basement with a room behind it (fish room). I've got the opportunity now to do it up right so I won't come back later and say "I wish I had done this...". What are all the must have's for a fish room? Floor drain? Dehumidification? A/C vent? Access to exterior wall? etc... Here's a snip-it of the current room plan. I think it needs to be at least two feet deeper into the storage area. I'd like to have it 2 foot wider as well but not sure I can get that. The tank will be in the wall facing the den. I'm thinking of moving the door into the room to the back wall so the entrance will be from the storage area. Oh, my initial plan is for a 96 x 30 x 25 tank (~300 gal), but I'm not married to that size. The sump will go under the tank. I was hoping to have it out from under the tank, but I don't believe I'd have the room. I will have an external fuge plumbed into the system. Here's what I plan to have in the room: dedicated circuits to GFCI breakers-> one for the tank and all it's equipment and one for everything else, RO/DI & SW tanks (65 gallon tanks that are 23" in diameter), shop sink, floor drain with vinyl flooring that extends up the wall a few inches , external fuge and frag tank/s plumbed to system, counter top work space. I also plan to have an AC vent and either a dehumidifier or a air vent w/fan to draw air out. Need some advice on that. What I don't want to do is overlook the things I must have because I'm thinking of the things that I want to have! Please save me from myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 If I could do it, I would use dedicated HVAC vent and return, plus a dehumidifer plumbed to a drain. Also, you can't have enough light in a fish room, in my opinion, so I would go with some individually switched shop light strips. Access to exterior is nice to have in a newer home since you may want an exterior air line for your skimmer. Also, I would think about that door swing to maximize interior wall usability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Thanks jolt! I'll have the door open into the storage area so it doesn't swing into the room if that's what you meant. If not, please elaborate for me. If I can't have the whole area and access to the exterior wall, then I'll have a PVC line plumbed from the room through the exterior wall for outside air access. - Great idea! How would you finish the ceiling, if at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I'd actually add a separate "electronics" closet or cabinet. salt is the enemy of anything w/ a control board. salt in the air is even worse. If you were to vent this, and get fresh air in... i'd make a cabinet the fresh air comes into first (for electronics) then exhaust that air into the room. then have an exhaust fan pulling the humid-saltridden air out. You could just keep that door swing as-is, and put the electronics cabinet behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 wait, thats the wall the tank is on! im w/ jolt. swing it out to the hallway, blocking the bedroom just reversing the swing as is, blocks the bedroom AND bathroom. lesser of two evils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I would have them finish the room with the same paint you would use in a bathroom, including the ceiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Keep that drain for sure, maybe place it away from the sump so the sump or anything else isn't too close to it. For example, once the tanks and equipment is in the room, the drain would be centered in the middle of the open space. That way you'll have plenty of room to mop and push away dirty water from the equipment. I would put the electrical outlets up higher on the wall than typically found. Help prevent water splashing on them, makes ergonomic sense to have them higher, and helps prevent salt creep on cords. It would be nice if you could have a vent the comes out of the fish room and follows your water heater vent up to the roof. Assuming that is a natural gas water heater that has an exhaust vent... Isaac makes a good point about electronics in a humid and salty environment, although I'm sure just housing the electronics in an outdoor rated electronics box would suffice. Your HVAC is close to the fishroom, which could be nice if you wanted to tie in a vent there. But I may want to have a dedicated wall unit to manage the temperature of the room independently of the house temperature. Maybe one of those single zone wall units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Gig 'em @ NDstructible said: It would be nice if you could have a vent the comes out of the fish room and follows your water heater vent up to the roof. Assuming that is a natural gas water heater that has an exhaust vent... dont use the actual heater vent, you dont want salt in that vent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Isaac said: dont use the actual heater vent, you dont want salt in that vent. No of course not, just follow it up since they'll already be running a vent. May as well include two together while they're cutting holes. But certainly don't want the chance of any kind of back pressure or salt intrusion in a water heater exhaust vent. Talk about code violations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Just now, Gig 'em @ NDstructible said: No of course not, just follow it up since they'll already be running a vent. May as well include two together while they're cutting holes. But certainly don't want the chance of any kind of back pressure or salt intrusion in a water heater exhaust vent. Talk about code violations! i know, just reinforcing. heat+salt = rapid rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Thanks all! You guys are awesome!! After talking with the wife there's been some improvements See below. Here's the changes: Push the left-hand wall three feet to the left making bedroom #4 a bit smaller and eliminating the door from that bedroom to the bathroom. The closet then goes from being in the room to taking space from the storage area. The bathroom also shrinks by 3 feet. The fish room now extends to the exterior wall and the entrance door will be from the storage area. The entrance door to the fish room near bedroom #4 will be eliminated. Also going to move the return air vent from sharing the wall with the tank to around the corner so it doesn't detract from the tank. Does all that make sense? I'm also thinking about have an automatic generator installed in case of a power failure when I'm not home. Don't think that will happen often, but one several hour outage would crash it for sure and with a big tank that's much more of an expensive loss. Thoughts on that? @Isaac : I like the idea of a separate electronics cabinet. It would have to be close to the tank since that's where all the action is so maybe I can set it into the wall and have a sealed door. Maybe use a weatherproof electrical box and have it set into the wall or some other weatherproof box with a glass front panel. @jolt : so not a finished ceiling but bare trusses and then pant them? Good call. Definitely something bright. @Gig 'em @ NDstructible : *good idea on the drain :); **Yes, definitely need to place the outlets higher on the wall. Maybe 4' or so.; ***It will be a natural gas water heater so that's doable. I suppose I would want a fan that would run all the time pulling air from the room. How would that affect the AC?; ****Oh good idea on the separate AC unit especially now that I'll have access to the exterior wall. I think that'll be a block wall though so I'm not sure how I'd make that work. Any ideas? I'll have to talk to the builder about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 You may not need to install a window unit or anything like that, maybe just one of these that will require smaller pass-through to the outside https://www.heatandcool.com/9-000-btu-klimaire-15-2-seer-ductless-mini-split-inverter-air-conditioner-heat-pump-wifi-enabled-system-with-15-ft-installation-kit-115-volt.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 i'd leave the register towards the main room, having it in the hall woudl suck in cooler air and limit its efficiency. you might not need to expand the whole room back, thats a lot of space you dont need in a fishroom.. unless you plan on fragtanks and the like. make the extension 6" on the left.. gives 4ft back to storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 The closet will take up about 2.5' of the back left corner of the fish room so that's now an 8' extension. If I take just six and give back 2 then they'd have to adjust the wall extending back to the exterior wall instead of just making it straight just to get 2' back. The room will be more than I need, but doesn't make sense to cut into the back side of it just to save a few feet. Might make more sense not to extent it all the wall to the exterior wall and leave room behind it though. Have to give that some thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 I think it all depends on whether you want a separate external AC unit. If you decide not to have the external AC unit, then the only other external access I can think of that you might need is: (1) external air for skimmer or vent (or you *could* go through attic), and (2) external drain for a dehumidifier (or you *could* go for a dedicated drain, especially since you will have a utility sink already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gig 'em @ NDstructible Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 It seems like there are multiple options for drains. You have the drain in the floor, which is the easiest and most obvious choice, but there is also the HVAC drain for the AC unit on the other side of the wall. What are you doing for storage space in the fishroom? Equipment racks? Simple shelves? An enclosed cabinet(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Dogfish Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Everyone has got all the things I could suggest. In my fish room I had them sink the concrete floor 4". In case of flood, the water will be contained in the room. No need to worry about seepage into other rooms. A set plugs for the lighting can be higher than the tank as Gig'em suggested or even in the ceiling. If you dont install the generator just yet, have them wire a panel on the outside of your house for it with the circuits for not only the tank but refrigerators ect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted September 12, 2017 Share Posted September 12, 2017 Oh, I really like the lowered floor concept Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 I think I can probably maintain the temperature of the room by just adjusting the vent louvers on the AC duct coming into the room. I'll have the dehumidifier drain plumbed into the sink drain as previously mentioned. The outlets in the ceiling above the tank for the lighting is a great idea! Storage space in the room will consist of equipment racks, shelves and cabinets as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Have you thought about building an tank in place? With the new floor plan you could do something a lot wider. Stick to your 30" tall but go 12' wide and 6' deep: Setting your lights 6" to 12" away from the from and angling them away from the front and towards the rock will minimize initial algae growth on the glass and as your tank has matured you may only need to clean it every few weeks. I would third the suggestion on having outside air brought in and I wouldn't shy away from setting it up so the fish room is completely separate from the house AC. This system below initially had five 400 watt MH then was switched to seven 250 watt MH. It was in an enclosed cabinet and to deal with the heat I ran intake fans with an 8" duct through the ceiling to a vent under the eaves to pull in about roughly 800 CFM. Additional fans vented into the attic. I was able to keep temps under 83° without a chiller, and there was a minimal pull on the house AC. I would also focus not on having a lot of fancy electronics but focus on redundancy and making water changes as simple as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 +1 on redundancy. i kinda dont like the outlets on the ceiling idea.. heat rises, humid salty heat likes electricity. the obviousness aside... everything on my tank is on a UPS... so no plugs anywhere except from out from the UPS a couple months ago various things fried in my house over 5 days across 2 lighting events.... tank was isolated and safe.... UPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 What size UPS did u use that was able to handle that load or did u just have certain equipment on the UPS? I typically only have my Apex and one power head on my UPS, but it wasn't rated to handle a very big load. @Timfish : The idea of having a tank that large is very exciting, but I'm almost positive my wife would kill me in my sleep if I even mentioned it. I do plan to incorporate automatic water changes which should make things a bit easier. As far as fancy electronics and equipment, my plan is to keep it simple and use quality stuff. The only electronics I had in my old system was an Apex and that should be all I need for this one. As far as redundancy is concerned, can you elaborate for me? I have seen where some people have two skimmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 For starters I would not waste my money on skimmers. This system I used two Mag 5s for return pumps and since the light fixtures are custom I have a spare light fixture to immediately swap out if one has issues. With my 20 year old skimmerless system I only have 1 return pump but there's a couple power heads and battery operated air pumps that switch on if there's a power loss and 9 LED light bars so if one dies total light isn't affected too much. As far as dosing equipment the system in my first post had a calcium reactor and kalkwasser in the ATO (ATO was sized so with power off and if the float valve failed it would not overflow the sump or drop the salinity too much). The two in this post have autofeeders with baking soda and or calcium bicarbonate so it's easy to replace ( although the one on the skimmerless system died last fall and I haven't gotten around to replaced it yet). Basicly if any one piece of equipment fails I don't want the system impacted significantly let alone risk a system crash if it doesn't get replaced immediately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 APC 1400 RM I have 2 EB8's. main one w/ lights and a heater on a UPS'd one, another one w/ 2 other heaters not on UPS. heaters will kill the longevity of the battery during outage quick! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Well I just bought Modern Coral Reef Aquarium Vol. 1 off Amazon. I've got plenty of time to read it since the house is not expected to be finished before late Spring to early Summer. Going skimmerless is intriguing. I can say my experience over the past 13 years of having a mixed reef tank is that my tank went through continuous cycles of nice clean rock for several months to an algae bloom and the fight to eradicate the algae which usually took a few months, rinse and repeat. The PO4 and NO3 always read 0.00 when tested. I did run a skimmer, carbon and GFO 24/7. The feedback I always received was that I was running an ultra-clean tank and that's why I couldn't keep acros. Not sure about the validity of that feedback, but I'll definitely explore the possibility of a skimmerless system. I'll also ask that this thread stays on topic and not become a skimmerless system thread. I'll be happy to start one though because I'm loving this discussion So back to the floor drain. I spoke with the builder last night and he said we'd be getting into a lot of expense to add a concave cement floor with a drain vs just adding a drain to the flat floor and using a squeegee if needed. Thoughts on that? I looked at the mini split AC/Heat Pump systems as recommended above so I can control the room temperature independently of the house. That does look like a great and affordable solution. Access to fresh air will now not be a problem since the room will go all the way back to the exterior wall. I see what you're talking about with redundancy now. I did keep spare power heads and a spare return pump on hand in the event of failure and I added a single T5 strip to supplement the LED fixture and as a backup light source in the event of a failure. I'll make sure to repeat those habits with the new system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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