Brown corals

[Christyef]

Hi! Me again. [emoji18]Ok, here's another question. My corals seem to be more brown than what they're supposed to be. I've read a lot about it and there are conflicting ideas. They seem to contradict actually. Lighting and nutrients are a common denominator in everything I've read. Had a discussion w/ another reefer, too. I run an oddesea 4 bulb t5 from 9-9, with my MH coming on from 12-4. There are 3 actinic and one white bulb in the t5 part. All of my softies seem to literally double in size reaching to the MH. I have good growth, but it's brown growth. Lol. I like the effect the MH has on size, but if it's causing them to produce too much zooxanthellae (if that theory is correct), then maybe I shld jst run t5. Or invest in LED.....

 

 

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[nori4dori]

I've never used MH. I only use T5 supplemented with blue LEDs. In my experience Odyssea T5s are sub-par. I've tried it. The difference between Odyssea and an ATI is night and day.

[Sissy36]

Hi again! Sorry about your softies. I know nothing about brown growth on them. I was only going to comment I have an LED on my 20g long and I struggle with too much light. In my tank it's an extremely fine line between too much and not enough. I know you have smaller tanks so i wanted to give you a heads up if it's a mixed reef or shallow, or both

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[Christyef]

I've never used MH. I only use T5 supplemented with blue LEDs. In my experience Odyssea T5s are sub-par. I've tried it. The difference between Odyssea and an ATI is night and day.

Wldnt oddesea jst be the fixture? I cld put the same bulbs in the oddesea that I cld the ATI.


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[Christyef]

Hi again! Sorry about your softies. I know nothing about brown growth on them. I was only going to comment I have an LED on my 20g long and I struggle with too much light. In my tank it's an extremely fine line between too much and not enough. I know you have smaller tanks so i wanted to give you a heads up if it's a mixed reef or shallow, or both

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I have 3 tanks. The main issue I'm having now is my 55(biggest one). The 35 w/ the kessil is looking like it's supposed to. The 29 cube w/ the factory bulbs are kinda browning too.


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[Timfish]

For starters, brown is healthy*, the corals aren't having to put extra effort into making coloring proteins.   There are 4 primary reasons corals make fluorescing proteins.  Starting with too much light the coral places the granuals or organelles the contain the proteins above the zooxantheallae to protect them.   With too little light the organelles are placed behind the zooxantheallae to increase the light they receive (with carbon dosing or ULNS methods the zooxanthealae are reduced to increase a corals colors).  In some cases the organelles are part of a corals immune response to pathogens.  The organelles may also be used to deal with free radicals caused by photosynthesis.  .You'll need to experiement but I would guess you don't have high enough light levels.  You'll need to research your specific corals to figure the best lighting conditions to get the colors you want.

 

(* We know melanin is used by corals to deal with pathogenic microbes.  This is speculative on my on part as I have not found any solid research yet but based on my own experience and anecdotal reports from people using carbon dosing I strongly suspect high microbial loads in systems may stimulate enough melanin production to turn a coral brown.  If yuo experience browning without a change in water parameters or lighting conditions and are carbon dosing I would suggest backing off on the dosing regiem.)

 

 

 

[Christyef]

I've had the same bulbs for over a year. I jst realized that yesterday. It jst seems terrible to me to throw away a bulb that still produces light (even tho it may not be enough). It may also be the quality of bulb. Bc like most beginners, I skimped on cost and didn't fully understand what I was looking for. I tried to change them yesterday, but they were too dang hot. ?. I'm going to get the correct bulb wattage,spectrum, and color.


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[Christyef]

I'm trying to include a video, but it keeps saying network error. I'll take pix


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[Christyef]

. When I got the torch it was purple (under their lights). And the huge 2 nems (used to be one and split), is a rainbow nem. The sun coral has stayed the same color, but they aren't photosynthetic. These pics are taken w/ the MH on

 

 

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[ShawnM]

How old are the bulbs

 

Nvm just read up yeah I would change the bulbs for sure and see if that helps

[Christyef]

How old are the bulbs
 
Nvm just read up yeah I would change the bulbs for sure and see if that helps

Hey! How have u been? How's the tank doing?


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[HarleyGuy]

Hi Christy,

I'm not an expert by any stretch but I think I would start with what I can address first. I'm sure you already checked this, but what are your water specs? I've heard that stress can cause browning, and water quality issues can cause stress as a result of too many nutrients (high amount of Nitrate/Phosphate). 

Next, if I changed lighting I would want to know how much PAR is being produced at the various depths. I'm sure there are a few PAR meters floating around in the club that you could borrow if you don't have one. However, I don't think that is your issue as I believe too much light would cause bleaching, not browning. I would be more concerned about having adequate PAR at depth and the proper spectrum being produced depending on the age of the lights. According to my research, too much of the wrong spectrum can have an affect on color. I know that changing the intensity and spectrum on my AI's made a big difference in my 36gal.

I hope this helps,

John

[HarleyGuy]

One other note, if you are dosing your corals. too many nutrients can also cause an increase of zooxanthellae populations which could cause the browning affect.

If your N03/P04 are low but corals are turning brown, you might be causing this issue due to other nutrient sources such as dosing stuff like Amino acids, vitamin complexes, coral foods - marine snow, etc. It would depend the amount of nutrients added versus your available nutrient export methods. But you could try eliminating the dosing for a few weeks to see if your colors start to return.   

[ShawnM]

Hey! How have u been? How's the tank doing?


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Tank is doing really well. Still a little amazed I haven't had to start dosing anything or get a calcium reactor but all in all it is looking really nice.

[Bpb]

I can definitely tell you that elevated NO3 and PO4 don't necessarily cause immediate or even long term browning.  Because of kids and life, I actually neglected my tank heavily for quite a while, close to a year, and allowed my NO3 to soar up in the 40-50 ppm range, and PO4 to climb well past 0.4 ppm as well, and what corals I did have (even mixture of easier sps, lps, and zoas) remained every bit as fluorescent and vibrantly colored as when I ran ultra low nutrients.  Growth slowed to a crawl, stalled entirely, and even receded in many species, but colors remained great. 

As metioned the oddysea bulbs wont kill your livestock, but they sure wont make them look real pretty.  Also as mentioned, brown isn't necessarily unhealthy, but most people do prefer more vibrant colors.  If you were to swap those stock MH bulbs for Phoenix 14k, and swap your t5ho for an even mixture of ATI blue+ and ATI true actinic, I think your colors will improve not only immediately, but get better and better over time.  I have friends that use that same MH/T5ho oddysea combo and have spectacular growth, but colors are muted as well.  It's in the bulbs. 

 

[Christyef]

One other note, if you are dosing your corals. too many nutrients can also cause an increase of zooxanthellae populations which could cause the browning affect.
If your N03/P04 are low but corals are turning brown, you might be causing this issue due to other nutrient sources such as dosing stuff like Amino acids, vitamin complexes, coral foods - marine snow, etc. It would depend the amount of nutrients added versus your available nutrient export methods. But you could try eliminating the dosing for a few weeks to see if your colors start to return.   

I do dose a Kent coral food and use oyster feast when I thaw out the cubes. Ive laid off the Kent this week. Will see what happens for a few weeks


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[Christyef]

I can definitely tell you that elevated NO3 and PO4 don't necessarily cause immediate or even long term browning.  Because of kids and life, I actually neglected my tank heavily for quite a while, close to a year, and allowed my NO3 to soar up in the 40-50 ppm range, and PO4 to climb well past 0.4 ppm as well, and what corals I did have (even mixture of easier sps, lps, and zoas) remained every bit as fluorescent and vibrantly colored as when I ran ultra low nutrients.  Growth slowed to a crawl, stalled entirely, and even receded in many species, but colors remained great. 

As metioned the oddysea bulbs wont kill your livestock, but they sure wont make them look real pretty.  Also as mentioned, brown isn't necessarily unhealthy, but most people do prefer more vibrant colors.  If you were to swap those stock MH bulbs for Phoenix 14k, and swap your t5ho for an even mixture of ATI blue+ and ATI true actinic, I think your colors will improve not only immediately, but get better and better over time.  I have friends that use that same MH/T5ho oddysea combo and have spectacular growth, but colors are muted as well.  It's in the bulbs. 

 

Awesome! Thank u. Ur the first one to mention changing the MH bulbs. Didn't even think of those! ? There is a fella w/ a par meter, but I haven't messaged him yet. Hopefully will have time soon

 

 

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[HarleyGuy]

43 minutes ago, Christyef said:

I do dose a Kent coral food and use oyster feast when I thaw out the cubes. Ive laid off the Kent this week. Will see what happens for a few weeks


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Hi Christy,

I would test your levels before making any major changes, but if you google coral browning you will see a lot of references to high nutrient levels as a possible cause. Also, I certainly wouldn't let your NO3/PO4 levels get too far off. It took a long while for me to get my 36gal back to normal when I had to let the water changes go after my motorcycle wreck. Actually Dan came by and did one water change for me to keep my tank from going over the edge.

As I stated above I'm thinking your issue is either water quality or lighting or both. Before swapping out expensive MH bulbs I would grab a PAR meter and check your levels to be sure that PAR levels are an issue. Also, when you com over Sunday I may have another possible option as well.

John