Brainstorming - Future Custom Build

[Good Greef]

Hello Everyone,

I've been active in reefing for 2-3 years now with my 75g. While I may not post much, by nature I'm a sponge always looking to learn from others and constantly read this forum, Reefcentral (all subtopics!), reef2reef, all the time. It's amazing of how much I wish I knew before I invested money into my 75g - but you realize there's no way to foresee these circumstances in the hobby unless you live through it (i.e. sump too small for future reactors, kalk ruining pumps, vodka overdosing,etc.) So what did I do as a beginner? I bought a standard Aqueon 75g from Aquatek because they were closest to my house, bought too small an Eshopps sump, bought crappy Orbit Marine lights before my AP700 (b/c I thought coral was secondary) and got a wood stand that's too tight for me to do anything... but despite that I've been able to grow many Acropora frags and Bali maricultured and create a stable environment. But now I need to upgrade in 2017.

That being said, I'm now in the market to upgrade to an SPS dominant, rimless 72x30x24 custom tank. The room it will be placed in is a long rectangle, so keeping it minimal and clean is necessary (no canopy). And while I feel confident in my abilities to run a tank that's already setup, I'm less knowledgeable when it comes to the logistics of setting up a said tank when it comes to plumbing, electrical, safety, etc. I've read so many build threads that help, but I'm hoping I could use this thread to pick y'alls brains.

Here are my initial high level decisions/thoughts; Ill try and organize them for easy reading. Any thoughts would be helpful!

• Tank: 72x30x24h - Standard, not Starphire Glass over Acrylic because concerns of scratching.

1. Custom Builders to get quotes from: A.G.E., Planet Aquarium, D.A.S.
2. Some don't work directly with the public, so I guess I need to goto their LFS partners?

 

• Stand: Black powder coated steel w/ magnetic panels for easy access (initial thoughts)

1. Good height for the stand? I plan on getting a custom acrylic sump made but that's all I know lol.
2. Can a tank of this weight be supported with no center column?

 

• Overflow/Plumbing: internal

1. Cant decide b/w single corner overflow, single overflow that's along back wall but 90% to the right, or center overflow?
2. Herbie overflow vs. Beananimal? Initial thoughts are Herbie would be sufficient as I currently have a Durso and its quiet enough. Also want to minimize the overflow footprint.
3. What size is best for the overflow box? Will the builders just recommend what's feasible?
4. Plumbing - should I /How should I map out plumbing? Will the builder provide recommendations or should I start a sketchup for their reference? Gate valves? Where do I begin lol?

 

• Sump

1. I really liked Dan and Meg's I saw from Melevs Reef but am open to suggestions. In the sump, I plan on having a place for a filter sock at the drain, middle section I want big enough for an oversized skimmer, GFO/Carbon Reactor, a stack of Marinepure blocks (due to minimal rock in tank), and possibly a Calcium reactor (which I know most advanced ppl use but I need to educate myself on them first).
2. Better to find a local acrylic person to customize it for me?
3. Appropriate dimensions and volume for said tank?

 

• Other Thoughts?

1. What other high level planning should I focus on for now? Should I pick a specific skimmer and build my sump around that? Before getting into the weeds of equipment, is it better to plan these items first?

 

[jestep]

The only real suggestion I'd give is make absolutely sure you want a tank this large. I have seen many a time where someone upgrades past a 48 - 60" tank and regrets it later. It's just a lot of real estate to work with and equipment costs more across the board.

Otherwise, I like tall stands for easier viewing and much easier access to the sump, 30 - 36" for the stand height. For a 24 tall tank, probably more like a 30" stand though. Unsure on engineering, ask one of the welders here. I would imagine with thick enough tubing or maybe angled braces, it would have no problem without a center support. 

I like the external calflow style if you can get someone to make one. Either horizontal overflow is fine, the bean is just safer, otherwise if functioning and designed properly, both should be silent.

Depending on whether you want a refugium sump or a separate refugium / frag tank plumbed in, but otherwise the largest sump possible while still being able to remove it from the stand if necessary and still having enough space under the tank for power strips, cable management, external reactors if being used. etc. I like to be able to remove the skimmer without removing the sump. I've seen tight setups where the skimmer must be put in the sump before the sump is put under the stand because there's not enough room above the sump to remove it while the sump is under the stand. Not ideal IMO.

[jolt]

Gary at Aquadome was very good to work with on getting my custom planet built.  Good attention to detail and he knows how to make sure you get what you are looking for.  I worked with 2 other lfs on planet quotes who simply did not pay enough attention to detail when getting my requirements and passing them on  to planet.  Their "ghost" style overflow is not too great, so I replaced it with an actual Reef Savvy ghost overflow.  Turns out the holes for the planet overflow matched perfectly, but I was just lucky.  I would suggest getting your overflow from BRS  (they sell the Synergy "shadow") or Elite Aquatics (http://www.elite-aquatics.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=57) first, and tell planet where you want the holes drilled, maybe even giving them a template after you receive the actual overflow.  Except for the planet overflow I love my planet aquarium's quality and look.

[Good Greef]

3 hours ago, jestep said:

The only real suggestion I'd give is make absolutely sure you want a tank this large. I have seen many a time where someone upgrades past a 48 - 60" tank and regrets it later. It's just a lot of real estate to work with and equipment costs more across the board.

Otherwise, I like tall stands for easier viewing and much easier access to the sump, 30 - 36" for the stand height. For a 24 tall tank, probably more like a 30" stand though. Unsure on engineering, ask one of the welders here. I would imagine with thick enough tubing or maybe angled braces, it would have no problem without a center support. 

I like the external calflow style if you can get someone to make one. Either horizontal overflow is fine, the bean is just safer, otherwise if functioning and designed properly, both should be silent.

Depending on whether you want a refugium sump or a separate refugium / frag tank plumbed in, but otherwise the largest sump possible while still being able to remove it from the stand if necessary and still having enough space under the tank for power strips, cable management, external reactors if being used. etc. I like to be able to remove the skimmer without removing the sump. I've seen tight setups where the skimmer must be put in the sump before the sump is put under the stand because there's not enough room above the sump to remove it while the sump is under the stand. Not ideal IMO.

Thanks Jestep. I'm 100% confident I want a tank this size and am fully aware financially of the costs associated with it.

Regarding overflow type, I am 100% set on an internal overflow so am not sure your options would work. The tank is going directly against a perimeter wall, so there'll be no room for an additional maintenance on the tank or overflow. If I use an external, my tank would also impede on the flow of the room more than I prefer.

Good suggestions on stand height and being able to remove the skimmer without removing the sump, as I cannot currently do that and it's frustrating. I have no intentions of having a separate refugium or frag tank plumbed in. I've always envisioned the middle section of my sump being large enough that I can throw in a small frag rack or some chaeto into it for critters.

[Good Greef]

1 hour ago, jolt said:

Gary at Aquadome was very good to work with on getting my custom planet built.  Good attention to detail and he knows how to make sure you get what you are looking for.  I worked with 2 other lfs on planet quotes who simply did not pay enough attention to detail when getting my requirements and passing them on  to planet.  Their "ghost" style overflow is not too great, so I replaced it with an actual Reef Savvy ghost overflow.  Turns out the holes for the planet overflow matched perfectly, but I was just lucky.  I would suggest getting your overflow from BRS  (they sell the Synergy "shadow") or Elite Aquatics (http://www.elite-aquatics.net/index.php?route=product/category&path=57) first, and tell planet where you want the holes drilled, maybe even giving them a template after you receive the actual overflow.  Except for the planet overflow I love my planet aquarium's quality and look.

Thanks Jolt - I go into Aquadome all the time and talk with Gary and Hunter so I'd be happy to deal with them regarding Planet Aquarium. So I like the look of that Elite Aquatics box looks like but I need to drill the back of the tank, not the bottom right? It looks like I would need to place the tank maybe 5-6 inches from the wall, to allow room for the box and any future plumbing maintenance - which may not work due to space constraints.

Should it concern me that my sump isn't directly underneath where you drill, and that any leaks wont be caught?

[jolt]

1 hour ago, Good Greef said:

Thanks Jolt - I go into Aquadome all the time and talk with Gary and Hunter so I'd be happy to deal with them regarding Planet Aquarium. So I like the look of that Elite Aquatics box looks like but I need to drill the back of the tank, not the bottom right? It looks like I would need to place the tank maybe 5-6 inches from the wall, to allow room for the box and any future plumbing maintenance - which may not work due to space constraints.

Should it concern me that my sump isn't directly underneath where you drill, and that any leaks wont be caught?

I guess type of overflow is a pretty variable choice.  I am fine with the external overflow and the distance from the wall.  For me, if there is a leak, it will only drain down on to my tile floor and stop at the bottom of the bulkhead hole for the overflow, so for me that is actually peace of mind.  I know planet does internal overflows as well, I just did not get one.

[mFrame]

My tank has roughly the dimensions you're looking at and I have a custom tall stand. If you'd like to come by and look at it feel free to contact me.  I can share some of the things I like and don't like about it, but nothing really answers the questions you have like seeing a tank/stand that size in person.

[Good Greef]

Thanks Mike. Ill take you up on that!

[Good Greef]

OK - Quick update with questions I am hoping y'all can help me wrap my head around. Its all these custom build details that tempt me to just go for the turnkey new Red Sea Reefer XXL-750 model, but I can't help but think there wont be enough space under the stand for my liking.  Here's what I do know first though.

What I do know: I am looking at a custom 72x30x24 tank from Planet Aquariums incorporating a modular marine "ghost" type overflow. Will have a stand built locally from NDestructible welding; Sump = Synergy Reef CL44; Lighting = 2x Kessil AP700; Will use CA Reactor and APEX

What I need help answering:

1. Drilling: Am I supposed to just buy whatever overflow I want and email the drilling template to the builder? How do I go about in deciding how to advise them on drilling my returns? What other drilling details should I pay close attention to?
2. Cabinet Skins: Has anyone used a local ATX cabinet builder to skin their stands that they recommend?  Has anyone been successful just finding fancy plywood at Lowes and attaching magnets to make it work?
3. Plumbing: How did y'all decide what type of PVC/connectors to buy, what angles to make them, etc? I want a clean simple look but read builds where people say "refrain from any 90 degree angles" and stuff. Is there not a flexible vinyl hoses I can use for all my plumbing? I've read about 20 total builds on here and Reefcentral and all this plumbing stuff just gives me a headache.
4. Structural Engineer - The tank will be on my main floor that is street level, but my house has an inverted floor plan so technically it will be on the 2nd floor. House was built in 1999. I am undecided if I will place it on an external wall or along an internal wall. From my limited understanding, external walls are load bearing and should be strong enough. But should I pay for a structural engineer to come out to be safe? Anyone on the forums qualified as one, I can pay in cash lol?
5. Apex - Which model should I buy if you were me. I want something that wont get phased out over the next 10 years.

Thanks for the help.

[+SChrisEV]

2 hours ago, Good Greef said:

OK - Quick update with questions I am hoping y'all can help me wrap my head around. Its all these custom build details that tempt me to just go for the turnkey new Red Sea Reefer XXL-750 model, but I can't help but think there wont be enough space under the stand for my liking.  Here's what I do know first though.

What I do know: I am looking at a custom 72x30x24 tank from Planet Aquariums incorporating a modular marine "ghost" type overflow. Will have a stand built locally from NDestructible welding; Sump = Synergy Reef CL44; Lighting = 2x Kessil AP700; Will use CA Reactor and APEX

What I need help answering:

1. Drilling: Am I supposed to just buy whatever overflow I want and email the drilling template to the builder? How do I go about in deciding how to advise them on drilling my returns? What other drilling details should I pay close attention to?
2. Cabinet Skins: Has anyone used a local ATX cabinet builder to skin their stands that they recommend?  Has anyone been successful just finding fancy plywood at Lowes and attaching magnets to make it work?
3. Plumbing: How did y'all decide what type of PVC/connectors to buy, what angles to make them, etc? I want a clean simple look but read builds where people say "refrain from any 90 degree angles" and stuff. Is there not a flexible vinyl hoses I can use for all my plumbing? I've read about 20 total builds on here and Reefcentral and all this plumbing stuff just gives me a headache.
4. Structural Engineer - The tank will be on my main floor that is street level, but my house has an inverted floor plan so technically it will be on the 2nd floor. House was built in 1999. I am undecided if I will place it on an external wall or along an internal wall. From my limited understanding, external walls are load bearing and should be strong enough. But should I pay for a structural engineer to come out to be safe? Anyone on the forums qualified as one, I can pay in cash lol?
5. Apex - Which model should I buy if you were me. I want something that wont get phased out over the next 10 years.

Thanks for the help.

10

For #2, I , I've used Fine Lumber, a couple times and have been very happy with selection of species.

[BornToHula]

3 hours ago, Good Greef said:

OK - Quick update with questions I am hoping y'all can help me wrap my head around. Its all these custom build details that tempt me to just go for the turnkey new Red Sea Reefer XXL-750 model, but I can't help but think there wont be enough space under the stand for my liking.  Here's what I do know first though.

What I do know: I am looking at a custom 72x30x24 tank from Planet Aquariums incorporating a modular marine "ghost" type overflow. Will have a stand built locally from NDestructible welding; Sump = Synergy Reef CL44; Lighting = 2x Kessil AP700; Will use CA Reactor and APEX

What I need help answering:

1. Drilling: Am I supposed to just buy whatever overflow I want and email the drilling template to the builder? How do I go about in deciding how to advise them on drilling my returns? What other drilling details should I pay close attention to?
2. Cabinet Skins: Has anyone used a local ATX cabinet builder to skin their stands that they recommend?  Has anyone been successful just finding fancy plywood at Lowes and attaching magnets to make it work?
3. Plumbing: How did y'all decide what type of PVC/connectors to buy, what angles to make them, etc? I want a clean simple look but read builds where people say "refrain from any 90 degree angles" and stuff. Is there not a flexible vinyl hoses I can use for all my plumbing? I've read about 20 total builds on here and Reefcentral and all this plumbing stuff just gives me a headache.
4. Structural Engineer - The tank will be on my main floor that is street level, but my house has an inverted floor plan so technically it will be on the 2nd floor. House was built in 1999. I am undecided if I will place it on an external wall or along an internal wall. From my limited understanding, external walls are load bearing and should be strong enough. But should I pay for a structural engineer to come out to be safe? Anyone on the forums qualified as one, I can pay in cash lol?
5. Apex - Which model should I buy if you were me. I want something that wont get phased out over the next 10 years.

Thanks for the help.

 #1, you will just tell Planet what size holes and where to drill them when ordering the tank. You may be able to send them the actual overflow, just talk to your dealer.

#3, if you are good with sketchup, it is a great way to plan it out your plumbing.  I drew up my entire plumbing before I ever bought a piece of PVC.  

There is flexible pvc (I used flexpvc.com) but as a word of caution I wouldn't call it very flexible.  In my opinion its best for short runs that you need a slight bend or something.  

As for setup, you should decide if you want a manifold or anything beforehand, but the plumbing is fairly simple.  You will have your drains, which if you go with a ghost overflow I believe its a bean animal, so 3 drain lines - siphon, durso and emergency.  The synergy sump will have bulkheads to where you connect all 3 of these lines to.  For the return its up to you on how to hook them into the return bulkheads, you can plan it out with sketchup, hand drawings or just play with some pvc once you get the tank in.  

90 degree angles aren't an issue, they will reduce water flow though. You will just need to make sure your return pump is strong enough to overcome the 90 angles. There are calculators on reefcentral if you want to get really detailed into it.

#4 It would be the few hundred dollars for the piece of mind.  The tank will be 2000+  pounds in a small square footage.

#5 I would go with the newest model.  It has built in wifi and will be the most future proof.  In my opinion the main drawback is it does not have a display, but you can buy one separately. It also has the 1link built in I believe,  which is nice if you go with Neptune for any other accessories.

[Good Greef]

21 hours ago, SChrisEV said:

For #2, I , I've used Fine Lumber, a couple times and have been very happy with selection of species.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[Good Greef]

19 hours ago, BornToHula said:

 #1, you will just tell Planet what size holes and where to drill them when ordering the tank. You may be able to send them the actual overflow, just talk to your dealer.

#3, if you are good with sketchup, it is a great way to plan it out your plumbing.  I drew up my entire plumbing before I ever bought a piece of PVC.  

There is flexible pvc (I used flexpvc.com) but as a word of caution I wouldn't call it very flexible.  In my opinion its best for short runs that you need a slight bend or something.  

As for setup, you should decide if you want a manifold or anything beforehand, but the plumbing is fairly simple.  You will have your drains, which if you go with a ghost overflow I believe its a bean animal, so 3 drain lines - siphon, durso and emergency.  The synergy sump will have bulkheads to where you connect all 3 of these lines to.  For the return its up to you on how to hook them into the return bulkheads, you can plan it out with sketchup, hand drawings or just play with some pvc once you get the tank in.  

90 degree angles aren't an issue, they will reduce water flow though. You will just need to make sure your return pump is strong enough to overcome the 90 angles. There are calculators on reefcentral if you want to get really detailed into it.

#4 It would be the few hundred dollars for the piece of mind.  The tank will be 2000+  pounds in a small square footage.

#5 I would go with the newest model.  It has built in wifi and will be the most future proof.  In my opinion the main drawback is it does not have a display, but you can buy one separately. It also has the 1link built in I believe,  which is nice if you go with Neptune for any other accessories.

Thanks Born to Hula. Lots of help. Your build thread is one of the ones ive read through.

I downloaded Sketchup and will play around with it this week. Need to do some research on manifolds or other plumbing things ppl wish they did but didnt. For instance, I plan on running GFO and carbon reactors, but if I decide i want to do biopellets or dose something like vodka later, should I plumb in something special like y valves, etc.

Also need to readup on CA reactors and how they figure into the plumbing. Or is it just like a GFO reactor that i can just place in my sump.Ive watched videos on how they work but Ive only been using Kalk+tunze osmolator from my ATO.

I guess I should contact Mframe and take a look at his tank. For those with external ghost overflows, how much room is between your walls and the tank? Or more specifically, if you need to work on your plumbing on the back, are you able to just work on it from a ladder in front of the tank, or from the sides?

[jolt]

I know @Juiceman went through having a tank built and drilled to his specs and it did not quite come out the way he instructed them.  He may have some lessons learned in working with the builder to drill ...

When I ordered my planet aquarium I got it with their "ghost" style overflow. I did not like the planet one and wanted to replace it.   Turns out it was drilled perfectly for a reef savvy ghost overflow, but I was just lucky.  The planet "ghost" was not horrible, but missing some nice feature like removable weir and lid for the external box.

[Juiceman]

If you're using an overflow they don't normally use, make sure they have it when they drill and verify they use it for reference.

I sent mine to Age.... they used my measurements of my old tank instead of using the overflow. I'd rather have never gave them measurements that way they had to use the actual overflow.

I think it would have never been an issue.


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[Sascha D.]

I have a tank with similar dimensions. In general the width should always be greater than the height for proper drainage. A 30" width gives you greater options to aquascape and not fill the tank with rocks. However, I have trouble reaching the back of the tank easily. I got quotes from 4-5 companies when I was trying to find someone to build the tank. If I remember right, Reef Saavy has a year long waiting list, I believe DSA went out of business. I got the Planet Aquarium quote from RCA, and DAS wouldn't return any calls or emails.  

I've had corner overflows in the past and my current tank has an internal coast to coast Bean Animal overflow. The calfo offers much better surface skimming, but the overflow box is too long and there are spots where detritus accumulates. I'm going to switch to a slim internal when I can find some motivation. I got several quotes back in January and glass holes had the best options. If you email the company then they will custom make whatever you need. I was planning to buy a solid overflow box and cut my own holes to fit my existing bulkheads. You can get the BA in a lot of different designs. I don't think it's much quieter than a durso unless you're pumping a large volume, but it has the safety feature. I'm running about 3k gph through 1.5" pipe and my full siphon is 60% open. 

Stand height will depend on how you plan on looking into the tank. If you're mostly going to be seated, then choose a height that's similar to how you like looking at your computer monitor. Imagine the monitor frame as your tank frame. I always view my tank standing and I don't want to have to bend too much when I'm looking in the tank. I really like 30-36" tall stands for easy viewing, but you'll need a step stool unless you're part ogre . I've seen a lot of steel stands, but nearly all of them are unfinished or less than furniture grade. To do it right on a tank that size, you're going to have to budget around $3k for the stand alone. 

The best sumps that I've ever owned have been DIY. Custom sumps look cool, but they're cramped and rigid. You end up marrying an acrylic sump and this spouse is never going to change. Make sure there is enough room for a big skimmer and at least two reactors to leave room for future options. Also, plan to have a 20g ATO resevoir in the stand. My 20g ATO has to be refilled every 7 days for most of the year.  If I had MH or T-5 then refilling might be a real chore every 4-5 days. I'm not going to comment on specific builders, but make sure the baffle design is bottom, top, bottom on each side. The top, bottom, top design has sub par surface skimming in every chamber. 

[BornToHula]

3 hours ago, Good Greef said:

I downloaded Sketchup and will play around with it this week. Need to do some research on manifolds or other plumbing things ppl wish they did but didnt. For instance, I plan on running GFO and carbon reactors, but if I decide i want to do biopellets or dose something like vodka later, should I plumb in something special like y valves, etc.

Also need to readup on CA reactors and how they figure into the plumbing. Or is it just like a GFO reactor that i can just place in my sump.Ive watched videos on how they work but Ive only been using Kalk+tunze osmolator from my ATO.

I guess I should contact Mframe and take a look at his tank. For those with external ghost overflows, how much room is between your walls and the tank? Or more specifically, if you need to work on your plumbing on the back, are you able to just work on it from a ladder in front of the tank, or from the sides?

If you have never used Sketchup before, and your only goal is to figure out the plumbing, I'd just recommend hand drawing it out.  I had used Sketchup for several years making woodworking plans and still I had a particularly hard time with getting the plumbing to look right.  However if you want to learn the program so you can use it for other stuff too I think its a great tool, I just wouldn't spend hours on it just for a plumbing layout.

When making your manifold, I would put in an extra outlet or two more than you think you will use, that way in the future if you want to add anything you wont have to redo it.  

I just set up a calcium reactor and for plumbing I know of three options to feed it. You can use the manifold, a dedicated water pump, or a peristaltic pump.  Calcium reactors don't need a lot of flow, but in my experience fairly good pressure is needed to get a consistent flow through them. I am currently using a dedicated water pump (an MJ1200).  You can put some reactors in the sump, it just depends on the recirculating pump that is on it.  The co2 tank will obviously need to be outside of the sump.

Its worth noting that if you go with planet aquariums, they have a stand builder they work with.  They only make wood stands, but if you buy the stand with the tank, you get a 10 year warranty on the tank.

[tminnick]

OK - Quick update with questions I am hoping y'all can help me wrap my head around. Its all these custom build details that tempt me to just go for the turnkey new Red Sea Reefer XXL-750 model, but I can't help but think there wont be enough space under the stand for my liking.  Here's what I do know first though.
What I do know: I am looking at a custom 72x30x24 tank from Planet Aquariums incorporating a modular marine "ghost" type overflow. Will have a stand built locally from NDestructible welding; Sump = Synergy Reef CL44; Lighting = 2x Kessil AP700; Will use CA Reactor and APEX
What I need help answering:

1. Drilling: Am I supposed to just buy whatever overflow I want and email the drilling template to the builder? How do I go about in deciding how to advise them on drilling my returns? What other drilling details should I pay close attention to?
2. Cabinet Skins: Has anyone used a local ATX cabinet builder to skin their stands that they recommend?  Has anyone been successful just finding fancy plywood at Lowes and attaching magnets to make it work?
3. Plumbing: How did y'all decide what type of PVC/connectors to buy, what angles to make them, etc? I want a clean simple look but read builds where people say "refrain from any 90 degree angles" and stuff. Is there not a flexible vinyl hoses I can use for all my plumbing? I've read about 20 total builds on here and Reefcentral and all this plumbing stuff just gives me a headache.
4. Structural Engineer - The tank will be on my main floor that is street level, but my house has an inverted floor plan so technically it will be on the 2nd floor. House was built in 1999. I am undecided if I will place it on an external wall or along an internal wall. From my limited understanding, external walls are load bearing and should be strong enough. But should I pay for a structural engineer to come out to be safe? Anyone on the forums qualified as one, I can pay in cash lol?
5. Apex - Which model should I buy if you were me. I want something that wont get phased out over the next 10 years.

Thanks for the help.

Do you have the contact info for the welder you are using by chance? I can't find the info online.


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[FarmerTy]

Do you have the contact info for the welder you are using by chance? I can't find the info online.


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They are professional members on the site.

http://www.austinreefclub.com/index.php?/topic/37488-NDstructible-Welding-examples

Built my stand too and I am extremely happy!