Vincent-Thai Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 So the hybrid powder blue I bought from live aquaria changed color on me a couple days after I put him in weird huh ? Well anyways I talked to live aquaria and they say they have another hybrid to give to me free . This one is so much nicer ! Woot live aquaria ! . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Wow -_- live aquaria just said the person who sent that email was not inform that the fish was not available sigh ... But I do get a full refund .. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Live aquaria called back and say they do have the fish now they sending it to me -_- Seriously ? Lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 So do you get the fish and the refund? Do you ship the other fish back lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin S. Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Will you be selling one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euphoric Eulogy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 What color did the other tang turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 The first hybrid I got it changed color to a regular powder blue . This one they Are sending me have a yellow on the tail and body is faded . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 So do you get the fish and the refund? Do you ship the other fish back lol? I wonder on that to lol . I talked to 2 different person . 1st person say they don't have it and they refund me . Then 2nd person call from a diff department said we have the fish specialty on hold for you so the sent it outSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 Will you be selling one? The first one changed color somehow . So it looks just like a ordinary powder blue lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Hybrids and designer fish make me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I understand designer fish but hybrids are natural. Why the sadness with hybrids? Heck half of our current fish we stock probably resulted from hybrids or habitat isolation of a certain species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Designer fish should not exist and it shows. I often see designer clowns with deformed gill plates and fins among other things. The health of these species is questionable at best. Some breeders are better than others. Rather I should say that they may have better stock. Either way I put designer fish right up there with irresponsible dog breeding. Animals that are bred and cross bred for their desirable traits are unreliable and do not conform to the breed standard. Of course every species of gold fish in the aquarium trade was man made by some genetic scientist in a lab somewhere and look at all of the problems they have. Flowerhorn Cichlids were designed to have words etched in their patterns but at least they could survive in nature if they were released. Most designer fish species could not occur in nature because they don't have the survivability of the parent species. Hybrids are unreliable. You could say that every fish in the world is a hybrid or has specific traits that resulted from separation from the parent species. The difference is that a hundred generations has passed since the initial variation. If you bought a Yellow Tang today, then you would pretty much know what to expect. There have been books upon books and research upon research published since the early 1900's on most fish. Not every species will be exactly the same but I know what to expect. When you get a hybrid you have no idea what to expect. How did the first Yellow tang act, or even the 100th? Aside from that, I always question the health of the specimen. Even if you buy a fish that acts exactly as you suspect, you can't see inside. There could be defects in the internal organs that limits the growth or lowers the life span. How many unexplained deaths are there every year in seemingly perfect water conditions? Would those fish have lived longer in the wild? Possibly, but there is no way to tell. It's very possible that we can't give our inhabitants 100% of everything they need. We just try our best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I agree with designer fish but still see no harm in buying hybrids or having one. Their variation may or may not survive in nature or in our tanks or even have the ability to reproduce but I don't see the harm in owning one. You're not supporting any bad industry practices by owning one either. Just my 2 cents but never saw any harm in hybrids other than as you mentioned, possible bodily defects but those won't get passed along as most saltwater ornamental fish are not bred by hobbiests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 In that case, let's disagree with mules as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Are you serious comparing fish with dogs lol . Hybrids why not have one ? Mean if they eating healthy everything there no harm to it . Other then difference color pattern . It not like it a 2 headed fish or a fish with 2 tails . Divers den have had this hybrid for a month before sending to me . To be honest I would fill my tank with only hybrids if I can . My next fish will be a HYBRID achilles . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Are they really that different? A woman breeds her Pomeranian with a chiwawa for no other reason that to create something she thinks is cute. A man mixes clown fish to get a different pattern of stripes for no other reason than to see if he can. The mule or Jack is different. They were created to improve the existing species for agriculture. They have a purpose that benefited mankind. Fancy gold fish have no purpose and have a lower survival rate than the parent carp. Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Sasha, There is something called hybrid vigor. You may want to do some research on it. An out cross will reliably produce a genetically stouter individual. How ever if they are an "out of species cross" they are routinely sterile, if they are an "inter species cross" they usually have full reproductive ability. "Hybrids" are quite common in nature. Also I both agree and disagree with your statement about designer fish. Yes irresponsible breeding can lead to genetic deformities and there is a science and an art in breeding animals to make sure you are pairing animals that their strong and weak, dominant and recessive traits will compliment each other to produce a more balanced individual. It can be done wrong, but a lot of the times it is done right. Also your argument about the fish never being able to make it in the ocean hold no water. There are 99 ways for a fish to die in the ocean. I would bet number one would be becoming a meal for a larger fish. The idea of turning fish loose in the ocean is A), unrealistic and B), in some cases a crime. So you truly are comparing apples and tires. Further more I support the RESPONSIBLE breeding of fish and the RESPONSIBLE breeding of designer fish. For one it lessens the impact of our hobby on the reefs. Designer fish are normally nothing more then color morphs usually. If you are so dead set against designer fish I'm going to assume you don't have a dog. They are all designers or at one point or descended from designers. Unless you have a pure wolf (which is illegal to own in Texas) or a coyote (which is illegal to own in Texas). And you don't have a cat since they are all designers too. Again with the exception of wild felines and almost all are illegal to own as well. Same with horses. Then there is designer coral. Any coral that has been aquacultured in aquariums has gone through some genetic mutations over the years. Look how many hybrid designer zoa morphs there is. It is impossible for any human to be so naïve to believe that we can breed anything and not change to some degree what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Either way I put designer fish right up there with irresponsible dog breeding. Animals that are bred and cross bred for their desirable traits are unreliable and do not conform to the breed standard.Sasha,You have argued yourself in a circle here. The definition of a breed standard is. In essence a breed standard is a blueprint for an animal fit for the function it was bred - i.e. herding, tracking etc. Breed standards are not scientific documents, and may vary from association to association, and from country to country, even for the same species and breed. The way to make a new breed of whatever is to do exactly as you say. To breed, cross breed and line breed. By the time you have done it successfully you have created a new breed which has a new breed standard. Just think of it this way. You take to color red and mix it with the color blue. You get the color purple. Well since purple is already established you and another color to make a new color no one has ever seen before. Then you learn how to reproduce this color and then name it Sasha's purple hue tree bark and then you have a new color different from all the rest and genetically stable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 And just to further my thoughts. The roses that you buy your wife on Valentine's day. Guess what they are genetic designers too. With nothing to do but look prettier. As is the case with a lot of flowers. 99% of the population wouldn't know what a wild rose looked like if it was shown to them. It looks nothing like a rose that we think of today. The simple fact is 90% of the hybrid roses will barely live and not flower at all on their own root structure so they are grafted onto new roots. By all arguments roses are worse off then designer clown fish. At least the clownfish can live. Same with an ear of corn. Yes the corn was modified for a reason which was to increase production but it's still a designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 I would like to apologize to Vincent for taking this thread to somewhere it was never intended to go. I should not have answered the question, but I didn't foresee my response leading to a debate on the validity and morality of all hybrid species throughout history. I was only answering based on fish that I have seen in my own tanks and those that were sold in the store that I used to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent-Thai Posted February 7, 2015 Author Share Posted February 7, 2015 I would like to apologize to Vincent for taking this thread to somewhere it was never intended to go. I should not have answered the question, but I didn't foresee my response leading to a debate on the validity and morality of all hybrid species throughout history. I was only answering based on fish that I have seen in my own tanks and those that were sold in the store that I used to work. It okay Sasha I accept your apology . It fine not a big deal lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoneroller Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Great discussion topic! One more point... in the wild, hybrid fish (abundance and richness) can be an indicator of degraded ecosystems (lots of tangents on that, don't need to go there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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