something to reef on Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Curious to know what other people are doing. I don't do them routinely, and would like to stop doing them all together, or as infrequent as practical. I have been maintaining elements via dosing 2-part and red sea ABCD trace elements. I'm keeping mostly lps and a few softies,and have been mostly successful so far (no great feat, I know). I've been having mixed results with sps for the short time I've had them. I think my higher than average alk (11-12), and improperly acclimating to high light levels are the reasons for the bleaching I've seen in a couple of them, some of which are coloring up again already. What are the cons to not doing regular water changes if I am able to maintain low nutrient levels without them, and replenishing lost elements via dosing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm on the no water changes team. I do think a large volume of water definitely helps with that. I didn't do water changes on my 125-gallon other than a couple at the beginning of its 3-year history. I maintained low nutrients via biopellets, GFO, carbon, and a large skimmer. I added elements back in via my calcium reactor and dosing amino acids... and on occasion iodine. Here was the end result before I upgraded to my 215-gallon. I kept a mix of softies, LPS, and mostly SPS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timfish Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm in the water change camp. Here's one of my systems that was started in 1992. Most of the corals have been in this system since the mid '90s. No supplements except maybe a couple times a year araga-might might be added. (And horror of horrors last time I checked phosphates were above 2 ppm.) And here's a much younger mixed system, again no skimmer but it did have both a calcium reactor and kalkwasser (see Dlebeek and Sprung's Reef Aquarium Vol III) but no other supplements/additives And here's another skimmerless system started in '97, the small birdsnest is the first coral addition since 2000 and this system has had turkey wing clams successfully reproduce. Again no supplements/additives. One problem is at best skimming only removes about a third of the TOC, Total Organic Carbon, from a system. There are thousands of compounds that fall under the heading of TOC some of which are refractory in nature meaning they can only be removed by dilution. Juabert demonstrated back in the 80's reef aquaria could be kept without water changes OR additives and supplements for years so going without water changes is nothing new. Here's a series of article on research done by Feldman, et al, at Pennsylvania State University looking at carbon, TOC and skimming: Ganulated Activated Carbon pt. 1 & 2http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/2/aafeature1Total Organic Carbon in Aquariahttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/8/aafeature3http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2Protein Skimate Analysishttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeatureProtein Skimmer Performancehttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/1/aafeatureBacterial Counts in Aquaria vs Reefshttp://www.advancedaquarist.com/2011/3/aafeature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo662 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I've got a 75g that's been set up since early March. I do 5g weekly changes. SPS are growing nicely and all LPS that have been in the tank for a while are all putting on new heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jestep Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I've been pretty busy lately. Probably 10 gallons on my 90 every 2 months mainly to make sure that micro nutrients and trace elements aren't completely exhausted. But I would imagine feeding would contribute a lot of these so no idea how much it's actually needed. But if you can't keep your nutrient levels in check via some method, they're a necessity IMO. Just based on observation, of keeping a 5, 8, 28, 48, and 90 gallon tanks, the smaller the tank, the more likely they are a requirements. Under 50 gallons, I had a hard time keeping a balance without significant weekly changes. Once I hit around 50, it was almost like a stability switch and I didn't need to do them nearly as much. Around 100 it seems like they are hardly needed at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+ludakris Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 My 8month old 90 gallon system. I have only done 1 20 gallon waterchange. Not my intensions but lifes unfortunate events have limited my budget for my tank. I think it is doing really good though. Things r slow growing but im finally getting coraline on my back glass and the fish look healthy. I feed once a day mysis and plankton for my fish and coral and 2 pieces of shrimp for my snowflake eel. I keep a top off container full of rodi water so the tank keeps stabil salinity. I add 4 drops of lugols iodine every monday. Pretty simple setup. Hope I was helpful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reburn Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm in the no water changes camp. I'm running a 34 solona so I don't run bio pellets or gfo reactors. I only due a water change when I need to bring down a pollutant. Which hasn't been for quite some time. Sometimes I feel guilty and will do a wc out of thin air but it seems even with buffering ph, salinity and alk perfectly something gets pissed off for a couple days. So at the end I just gave up doing water changes unless it is really needed. I dose Kalk in my ato and a hand full of other AAs and elements when my tests show that they are low. I'm in the camp of don't dose something you can't test for with the exception of aminos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
something to reef on Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 All helpful replies. And Wow. A lot of very impressive tanks, kept using different methods. I'm glad to see how successful you can be without water changes, because I hate doing them. Thanks for the links Tim. I will have to read through them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I started my 150g in July 2013. From July - January I did 4 water changes while the tank cycled and such. I have only done one water change since January 2014. Sorry I don't have an updated picture for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstarwiggle Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Ever since I upgrade from 30 to 80 gallon total volume. I have done only 5 gallon water changes every 3-4 weeks. My goal is to go to no water changes after I observe and test to see how things go the longer I push off water changes. I have some green hair and some red cyano that has bloomed over past two weeks. Tank has been up since about April 2014. I suppliment and skim and have rowaphos in reactor and passive carbon filtrate. Also I have a refugium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BornToHula Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people doing no or very small water changes. I was under the impression that water changes were a necessity ... I still have lots to learn! I have been doing a 20 gallon change on my 75 gallon tank once a week or every other week depending on my schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Yeah, I do 1.5 gallon change every week. I cannot yet claim it is effective until I master acro color and defeat hair algae... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Early on, weekly 10-20%. At the 5-6 month mark. Down to maybe 10% once a month or less even. On my previous tank I went 6 months or so without a water change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 10% per week. No excuses! SPS heavy nano using a doser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted October 27, 2014 Share Posted October 27, 2014 Wow, I'm surprised at the amount of people doing no or very small water changes. I was under the impression that water changes were a necessity ... I still have lots to learn! I have been doing a 20 gallon change on my 75 gallon tank once a week or every other week depending on my schedule. One thing to consider is that water changes are directly relate to nitrate export. Some systems have a low bioload and don't need many water changes to export nitrates before they reach excess. Some systems may have means to remove nutrients before they fully decay, like skimmers or manual collection, and some may chemically bind nutrients with GFO. Some systems have a means to export nitrates from the system such as biopellets or macroalgae and may never need water changes if all parameters remain consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manny Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Timfish so how much and how often do you change your water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I also don't do water changes and maintain with dosing 2 part and kalk. I have recently started a new project which involves vacuuming the sandbed into a micron filter sock into a 5 gallon bucket then with a TLF carbon reactor I let it run for about an hour then recycle it back into the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha D. Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Awesome Brian. Let us know how that turns out. I would be very interested! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bpb Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I also don't do water changes and maintain with dosing 2 part and kalk. I have recently started a new project which involves vacuuming the sandbed into a micron filter sock into a 5 gallon bucket then with a TLF carbon reactor I let it run for about an hour then recycle it back into the tank. That actually seems like a pretty good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Here is my new and improved Reef Water Recycler (RWR) (cc) (patent pending) I plug it into a foot pedal from harbor freight that you can pick up for $12 to control power, pull the water into a micron filter clipped onto a bucket. Once the bucket is full I shut off the pump using the foot pedal. Move the super dirty micro filter into another bucket so I can wash it out while the original bucket has a carbon reactor running I found I was wasting way too much water when attempting to clean my sandbed and causing undue stress to my fish and coral because of the water changes. Mainly due to temperature differences which affected my fish and the elements in saltwater did not match the elements in my tank so this affected my corals. With the new RWR I am able to pull out loads of gunk and recycle the clean water saving me money on Salt, RO/DI water, Fish, and Corals. I am still in the early stages of my project but I am satisfied with the results so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 dude. thats awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTy Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 That foot pedal is awesome. I'm sure the general population on ARC is having a collective brainstorming session on what else we could use that for. Sent via Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 First thing that popped in my mind was the hair algae and bubble algae removal wand. Elizzy was experimenting with stainless steel wands sharpened for bubble algae removal ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+brian.srock Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Here's v2. It's a bit smaller but easier to put into tight spaces. Still need to zip tie the pump to the handle but as you can see in the vid it's working great. Gets the gunk out and recycles the water without disrupting anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolt Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 That's awesome. The music made me want to grab some popcorn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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