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Clown Killer Tank


Gonzo59

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I've had my 14 g AIO running for about 6 months now and have had terrible luck with clowns... My goby/pistol are great and coral is doing fine as well. Every time I put a pair of clowns in there though they get ich!

They always last a couple months and seem very happy, hosting different spots in the tank and eating well, but the ich is relentless.

Any suggestions on what could be causing this?

Also any success stories with freshwater dips or other treatments? I really like this pair and don't want to lose them. Beautiful pair of misbars I got from Mr. Cob and the female is actually nice to the male! (I know that the source is not the problem because each pair has come from a different source)

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My best guess is that ICH has been introduced to the tank and is still in there.

I have nooo experience with marine ich.. only freshwater.. but id think treatment of the whole tank and everything in it is the same for both. If you havent then its probably still hanging around

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i don't know that all of the ich medications are coral safe. search around the forums, but i most often see garlic soaked food as the first step. as for treatment, medicating is usually recommended in a hospital tank.

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i don't know that all of the ich medications are coral safe. search around the forums, but i most often see garlic soaked food as the first step. as for treatment, medicating is usually recommended in a hospital tank.

agreed. if it were me and a FW tank id put everyone in a QT to treat and take apart the whole tank to sanitize. But im.also crazy. so theres that.
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before tearing the tank apart, i think that UV sterilizers can kill ich. there may be one to borrow around town if you don't want to buy one.

Hmmm might have to look into that. Sadly my hospital tank is holding LR for my 75 g I'm currently building... So treating the fish is out of the question. I just don't understand how the Randall's prawn goby has been unaffected for so long? Maybe he's more hardy than the clowns but I thought clowns were about as tough as it gets!

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Who knows. Sometimes its just a mystery. If its a small enough system mayne you can do some buckey reefing and use le buckets as QT?

Depending on how hardcore you want to be you could super sanitize the tank with bleach or dry it or whatever it is people do to murder sw ich within the time of a day.. treat the fishies.. and leave the LR out to figure out what to do with it.

I think I sound stupid.. and probably dont make sense. But. maybe youll get what I mean

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i definitely, definitely would not bleach your, beautiful, established tank... just bring the clowns when you come north this weekend and we'll take care of them in the hospital tank.

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i definitely, definitely would not bleach your, beautiful, established tank... just bring the clowns when you come north this weekend and we'll take care of them in the hospital tank.

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as said.. listen to the less crazy people. ;)
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i definitely, definitely would not bleach your, beautiful, established tank...

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Yes don't worry... I failed to see the benefits of that plan

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My 2 cents... the ich is symptomatic of a larger issue... thereby allowing ich to attack the weakened and stressed fish.

To me, removing ich from a system is like trying to remove GHA or cyano. Good luck with sterilizing your whole tank and trying to keep it that way. It's just unnatural to me and more work than I think its worth.

I've have ich outbreaks in every one of my tanks when I first set them up... and IMO, if a fish died, I was able to trace back to something else that caused the stress in the first place that allowed the ich to set in and finally push it over the edge. When I upgraded to the 210-gallon, my fish looked woolly from all the ich on them. They were literally covered from head to tail with ich... had a shaggy appearance to them. Did any of them die? No... well, I take that back, my powder blue that I added died but that was because of flukes. They all kept eating and survived it. Once they acclimated to the new tank (and unknowingly to the super high salinity), they recovered nicely.

Do you know your parameters? Are they being bullied in that tank by your goby/pistol? Do they have a place to feel safe (anemone, euphyllia, GSP, etc) where they can hole up?

Parameters-wise, what do you have for the following:

-Salinity

-pH

-PO4

-NO3

-ammonia

-temp

And also, have you had those numbers double-checked with a LFS or another reefer?

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Listen to this guy. He has a much squarer head on his shoulders than I. I mean look at that avatar!

hey, that's an oval. i just blend in with the wall. i told the artist to put me in front of a blue background, but nooooo.

before tearing the tank apart, i think that UV sterilizers can kill ich. there may be one to borrow around town if you don't want to buy one.

Hmmm might have to look into that. Sadly my hospital tank is holding LR for my 75 g I'm currently building... So treating the fish is out of the question. I just don't understand how the Randall's prawn goby has been unaffected for so long? Maybe he's more hardy than the clowns but I thought clowns were about as tough as it gets!

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jeeper's head is pretty round, but i think he put it the best. maybe it's the mohawk, but probably the astronaut training. i think of it like the cold. it's always hanging around somewhere, but if something is off with you you are more likely to get it. with that, packing them up in a bag and shipping them up north is probably not be the best way to relieve stress. but maybe he has some sort of zen haven fish spa up there that'll make it worth it all.

so, in short. my head is oval, makena is funny, and jeeper's an astronaut.

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My 2 cents... the ich is symptomatic of a larger issue... thereby allowing ich to attack the weakened and stressed fish.

To me, removing ich from a system is like trying to remove GHA or cyano. Good luck with sterilizing your whole tank and trying to keep it that way. It's just unnatural to me and more work than I think its worth.

I've have ich outbreaks in every one of my tanks when I first set them up... and IMO, if a fish died, I was able to trace back to something else that caused the stress in the first place that allowed the ich to set in and finally push it over the edge. When I upgraded to the 210-gallon, my fish looked woolly from all the ich on them. They were literally covered from head to tail with ich... had a shaggy appearance to them. Did any of them die? No... well, I take that back, my powder blue that I added died but that was because of flukes. They all kept eating and survived it. Once they acclimated to the new tank (and unknowingly to the super high salinity), they recovered nicely.

Do you know your parameters? Are they being bullied in that tank by your goby/pistol? Do they have a place to feel safe (anemone, euphyllia, GSP, etc) where they can hole up?

Parameters-wise, what do you have for the following:

-Salinity

-pH

-PO4

-NO3

-ammonia

-temp

And also, have you had those numbers double-checked with a LFS or another reefer?

+1. There is an external factor that is causing stress on the fish causing the ick to take hold.

Somthing to also help, garlic soaked food can help boost the fish's appetite and theoretically it also boosts their immune system. This stuff works wonders for kicking the ick: http://www.marinedepot.com/New_Life_Spectrum_Thera_A_Formula_Sinking_Pellet_Fish_Food_Small_Sized_Pellet_Fish_Food-New_Life_International-NL1313-FIFDDRPTSWSP-vi.html

On the note of UV, in order to kill waterbound ick, you will need a 18w UV sterilizer with a 100 gph flow rate to kill ick. But when your are killing ick via UV you will also be killing the waterborne bacteria that is beneficial to your tank. So please do not use UV to try and kill ick.

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Also any success stories with freshwater dips or other treatments?

Most treatments cause more harm than good. All dips can cause lots of stress on fish making them even more susceptible to the less common diseases and parasites. And treating an entire tank will cause the medication to never completely go away. Killing off things like shrimp and coral.

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1+ WHAT TY SAID, ANYTIME I HAD ANY KIND OF ICH OUTBREAK WHERE A FISH DIED THERE WAS AN UNDERLYING ISSUE, ex... TRACES OF AMMONIA, HIGH NITRITES OR NITRATES, TEMP SWINGS, MY TANK IS NOW 6 YEARS OLD AND I HAVNT HAD AN ICH OUT BREAK IN PROB FIVE YEARS NO MATTER WHAT FISH I PUT IN MY TANK... ALSO IN MY OPINION IN NEW TANKS AND EVEN WITH MATURE LIVE RTOCK I THINK IT DEF TAKES ALOT LONGER FOR OUR LIVE ROCK AND FILTRATION TO MATURE AND CATCH UP AND BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE WASTE BEING PUT OUT BY LIVE STOCK THEN WE THINK, AND DEAD ROCK TAKES ALOOOT LONGER, BELIEVE ME I KNOW, WHEN I PUT TOGETHER MY TANK I STARTED WITH ALL DRY ROCK AND SAND AND IT PROB TOOK MY TANK A FULL YEAR BEFORE I EVEN CONSIDERED IT STABLE...JUST MY TWO CENTS THOUGH

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Listen to this guy. He has a much squarer head on his shoulders than I. I mean look at that avatar!

hey, that's an oval. i just blend in with the wall. i told the artist to put me in front of a blue background, but nooooo.

before tearing the tank apart, i think that UV sterilizers can kill ich. there may be one to borrow around town if you don't want to buy one.

Hmmm might have to look into that. Sadly my hospital tank is holding LR for my 75 g I'm currently building... So treating the fish is out of the question. I just don't understand how the Randall's prawn goby has been unaffected for so long? Maybe he's more hardy than the clowns but I thought clowns were about as tough as it gets!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jeeper's head is pretty round, but i think he put it the best. maybe it's the mohawk, but probably the astronaut training. i think of it like the cold. it's always hanging around somewhere, but if something is off with you you are more likely to get it. with that, packing them up in a bag and shipping them up north is probably not be the best way to relieve stress. but maybe he has some sort of zen haven fish spa up there that'll make it worth it all.

so, in short. my head is oval, makena is funny, and jeeper's an astronaut.

I would have to disagree with the majority of that....Especially the part about moving them to a new tank causing more stress then good. It's clear that whatever floating around is a strong strain of ich, and from his past experiences, leaving them in tank the with no treatment will ultimately result in their death. A uv sterilizer will only kill free floating parasites, if it's running efficiently. It will provide very little, to no relief to the clowns before they lose the battle and would also be very unfeasible to stick in a 14g nanocube.

btw, I do have a zen garden for fish, it's made out of pvc, an established hob filter and a little patience....

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I disagree about the UV being a problem based on the idea that it kills water borne bacteria. It probably does but who cares? The vast majority of the beneficial bacteria in your tank is in the rock and sand. You'll notice that the store doesn't sell "live" water but carries all kinds of "live" sand and rock. That's because the bacteria that happens to be floating in your water column is minimal compared to the rocks and sand. A UV filter won't do enough damage to your bacteria population to cause a problem.

the biggest problem with using UV to prevent/deal with Ich is getting a strong enough lamp and a slow enough water flow past it to do enough damage. You definitely need to oversize your UV to your tank. I did and haven't had an out break since.

You can also get the medicated food. That seems to help also.

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You might do some reading on Brooklynella Hostilis. This might explain why only your clownfish are affected and will give you some insight as to how to treat it as well as irradicate it.

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I would have to disagree with the majority of that....Especially the part about moving them to a new tank causing more stress then good. It's clear that whatever floating around is a strong strain of ich, and from his past experiences, leaving them in tank the with no treatment will ultimately result in their death. A uv sterilizer will only kill free floating parasites, if it's running efficiently. It will provide very little, to no relief to the clowns before they lose the battle and would also be very unfeasible to stick in a 14g nanocube.

btw, I do have a zen garden for fish, it's made out of pvc, an established hob filter and a little patience....

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the moving/not moving is sort of a catch 22, to me. i think the problem with ick, and probably most things we deal with, is that we have too little information to work with. what really kills fish with ick? what strain of ick do we have? we all say "i have ick" but don't know what sort. so, do the varieties of ick have different treatments and mitigating circumstances. without a doubt. heat hurts some but helps others. i've read the life cycle on some is a month and the life cycle on others is 3 or more months. do we ever identify which strain we have before we treat them? before we say what what treatment worked and didn't? nah, we just say ick is bad and here is a treatment. perhaps i was contributing to this problem, but i tried to be as general as possible. even with the UV comment - they have been proven to kill the free floating ick, but is it all strains, or just some? do some need more exposure to kill or not? who knows. so i said, "UV may work, you should look into it".

in my experience sick fish either die or live. everyone's health is made worse by stress. and, in my opinion catching them and driving them an hour would be a lot of stress. they may even survive and be happy little fish in your zen garden (although, it needs a rake for the sand). but, i'd still worry that the 1 hour drive back would be stressful and make them susceptable to the same parasite they have now if that isn't removed from the tank (and some argue that it never will be). but, since its just an opinion, i probably shouldn't have siad it.

as for the UV, i agree. i mentioned it more in response to tearing the tank apart. it may help the current fish only by the fact that it kills (some of) the free floating parasites before they reattach and continue the infection, or may do nothing for them. i think the debate about the pros of killing bad stuff and cons of killing good stuff is a debate that will go on forever. so, i think personal preference and personal experience take precident over that.

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+1 to look past ich... I lost three large fish earlier this month due to what I think was brooklynella. In each case the fish looked like it had ich and was eating well but within 3-4 days was dead. Thankfully my four small fish came through it okay, but I lost about $300 in livestock, and didn't figure out what it was till the final fish was nearly dead.

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Well came home from work/class today and they were both dead...

Wanted to thank everyone for the valuable insight. Now that I know a little more about fish disease I do believe the symptoms are more in line with brooklynella.

Every parameter in the tank was good when I checked but I'm expecting a ammonia spike pretty soon (my pistol dragged the female into his lair).

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