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200+ animal deaths at Portland Aquarium


etannert

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I bet if these were puppy's you and the public would have a different attitude.

But they are not. They are fish, they are no smarter than the worms we feed them. I hope the aquarium staff does not end up seeing this forum. Mike has made it known that he is trying to be able to do fun activities with the club and get us things like back stage tours and get to do fun things in the only public aquarium we have ever had. You guys who don't want this to open are such a small group you can not stop it but through your degrading comments and pre judgements might burn the bridge for the rest of us.

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I bet if these were puppy's you and the public would have a different attitude.

But they are not. They are fish, they are no smarter than the worms we feed them. I hope the aquarium staff does not end up seeing this forum. Mike has made it known that he is trying to be able to do fun activities with the club and get us things like back stage tours and get to do fun things in the only public aquarium we have ever had. You guys who don't want this to open are such a small group you can not stop it but through your degrading comments and pre judgements might burn the bridge for the rest of us.

I don't think anyone is realistically intending to prevent them from opening. I think most people would be happy with an aquarium that is well run and above board. Thus far, based off of numerous precedents, I'm not convinced that I could be proud to call this place of business the "Austin Aquarium". I'd rather go to Richard's, or Clint's, or Roland's, Mitch's, Mikes, etc.

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Call it what you will and look at who Evers tanks you want (i have seen a couple of the ones you named and they are awesome!) but let others give the aquarium a shot first and not burn any bridges before they are built.

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A few thoughts...

1. I think comparing hobbyists to professionals is a specious argument at best. Saying that we as hobbyists have killed fish and engage in cycling via fish, so them doing the same shouldn't matter, is an inaccurate comparison. I don't think any of us here would compare ourselves to the good folks working in the Sea World coral reef section, nor should we; and if I can accurately compare my knowledge and experience to the folks running AA, then they shouldn't be running a public aquarium. Hence my earlier point about the need for degreed and experienced biologists and zoologists on staff.

2. Cycling with a fish is unnecessary and cruel. Declawing a cat or snipping the vocal cords of a dog is also cruel. People do all these things, and they do it for the same reason: convenience. It's the same reason we go to McDonald's or Whataburger even though we know it's horrible for us, it's the same reason I can't be bothered to put on sunscreen even when I'm outside at marching rehearsal for 4 hrs every afternoon (and yes, I know it's stupid, but there you go). I'm not passing judgment on anyone for doing it, and I have no knowledge of whether it's less cruel in freshwater than saltwater (because I've never kept freshwater beyond a goldfish when I was in college), but we know that there are better ways to cycle saltwater tanks. And I do think that we should reasonably be able to HOPE that an organization that purports to be educational in nature would use the most humane methods currently available.

3. I have no idea where this talk of burning bridges came from, but it's incendiary and off-topic. I would LOVE for there to be a fantastic public aquarium in Austin; it would save me driving to Sea World, which I never seem to have time to do. I would love for my friends, students and coworkers to know what it is I'm talking about when I say I keep saltwater reef tanks. I just want to know that when I send friends and family there, I can do so knowing the husbandry is of a high quality. If they are truly looking out for the best interests of the animals, they won't mind that we are doing the same.

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A few thoughts...

1. I think comparing hobbyists to professionals is a specious argument at best. Saying that we as hobbyists have killed fish and engage in cycling via fish, so them doing the same shouldn't matter, is an inaccurate comparison. I don't think any of us here would compare ourselves to the good folks working in the Sea World coral reef section, nor should we; and if I can accurately compare my knowledge and experience to the folks running AA, then they shouldn't be running a public aquarium. Hence my earlier point about the need for degreed and experienced biologists and zoologists on staff.

Their website shows they do

2. Cycling with a fish is unnecessary and cruel. Declawing a cat or snipping the vocal cords of a dog is also cruel. People do all these things, and they do it for the same reason: convenience. It's the same reason we go to McDonald's or Whataburger even though we know it's horrible for us, it's the same reason I can't be bothered to put on sunscreen even when I'm outside at marching rehearsal for 4 hrs every afternoon (and yes, I know it's stupid, but there you go). I'm not passing judgment on anyone for doing it, and I have no knowledge of whether it's less cruel in freshwater than saltwater (because I've never kept freshwater beyond a goldfish when I was in college), but we know that there are better ways to cycle saltwater tanks. And I do think that we should reasonably be able to HOPE that an organization that purports to be educational in nature would use the most humane methods currently available.

I agree there is better ways but us lazy Americans like easy

3. I have no idea where this talk of burning bridges came from, but it's incendiary and off-topic. I would LOVE for there to be a fantastic public aquarium in Austin; it would save me driving to Sea World, which I never seem to have time to do. I would love for my friends, students and coworkers to know what it is I'm talking about when I say I keep saltwater reef tanks. I just want to know that when I send friends and family there, I can do so knowing the husbandry is of a high quality. If they are truly looking out for the best interests of the animals, they won't mind that we are doing the same.

Post #14 says they have offered to host our club for a behind the scenes so we can begin our judgement. Do you think if we just go ahead and judge now the offer will still be on the table? This is no more off topic then people posting links about the owners brother getting a dwi

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I bet if these were puppy's you and the public would have a different attitude.

But they are not. They are fish, they are no smarter than the worms we feed them. I hope the aquarium staff does not end up seeing this forum. Mike has made it known that he is trying to be able to do fun activities with the club and get us things like back stage tours and get to do fun things in the only public aquarium we have ever had. You guys who don't want this to open are such a small group you can not stop it but through your degrading comments and pre judgements might burn the bridge for the rest of us.

A potential visit to the aquarium could be fun, but the reason it was originally discussed with AA and presented for the club here was more to show the spirit of openness that AA has demonstrated. If this thread is any indicator I think that "informed" members of the club will potentially be the harshest critics.

There are numerous facts and sources for directly related and semi-related information. There's still a long time until opening day and I'm sure that those looking for reasons to not go will be provided many more by then. Likewise, for those who are looking for reasons to hope for the best there will be similar signs. Until the aquarium is open and I see it for myself I'll continue to reserve judgement. I'm skeptical, but have been wrong before. And if my wife is reading, no, this is not an admission that can be used in our personal arguments. :)

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Lol sorry to push my feelings so much, support it or not I'd rather be on arc than the aquarium and this thread is making my stars go down :P it will be interesting when it opens! I don't wana stand up for them and then they do something bad and make me a fool! I think we should get a free back stage tour to see for ourselves!

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I think some of the 'ill will', here and in the public eye, stems from the desire to have a 'real aquarium' in town finally.

IMO, when Joe Public hear Austin Aquarium, they automatically think something 'govt run' a la Steinhart or Georgia or Dallas; i.e. big, publicly funded, ran by zoologists/biologists which is developed with public support and built up over years.

What they seem to have gotten is something similar to the Aquarium restaurants; a business that happens to have fish tanks set up that is designed to make money or a LFS that just happens not to sell fish. (I state this based almost solely on the Yelp reviews of the Portland aquarium.)

When all the bad press came out and Joe Public found out they aren't getting what they thought they were. Well, we see the results.

I don't put much stock in the permitting issues. I'm fairly certain many business get started before they get full permits in place and personally I don't care if they start building stuff before the city says it's ok. A public safety issue is another matter but I'm not aware of any regarding this business. Permitting surrounding animals is a different matter, especially when you tout yourself as an educational facility.

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I LOVE the passion coming out of "both sides" of this debate. but the beauty of it is that at the end, we are both hoping for the best; an awesome public aquarium that will do the right thing concerning the well being of the animals.

I know there is not ONE member here saying "who cares if they don't treat the fish right I just want to go see a public aquarium here in austin"

so lets put up our pitch forks and put out our torches until we see this place in action. but keep them near you just in case poke.gif

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I think some of the 'ill will', here and in the public eye, stems from the desire to have a 'real aquarium' in town finally.

IMO, when Joe Public hear Austin Aquarium, they automatically think something 'govt run' a la Steinhart or Georgia or Dallas; i.e. big, publicly funded, ran by zoologists/biologists which is developed with public support and built up over years.

I think you definitely summed up much of my biggest objections.

Austin is severely lacking in quality public attractions. If you compare us to other medium and large cities, it's really a joke. We don't have any zoos, aquariums, museums, etc. that could possibly be considered equivalent to what you would find in most cities. Based on the reviews of the other aquariums, I don't want Austin's representation of an aquarium to be the same as those.

When something like an aquarium or even the current austin zoo, uses the city name, it rides a fine line of legal false advertising IMO. It immediately sounds like a sanctioned organization which it is not. For many private business types it's fine. For something that is going to represent the city it's questionable. It should also be pretty clear why Austin was a good candidate for a private aquarium. We have over a million people, a great economic environment, and absolutely no competing attractions within at least an hour. This aquarium doesn't need to be hugely impressive for it to be very successful. They probably don't need people to even visit more than once.

Also, permits are a pain and easy to mess up, but it's hard to overlook the fact they didn't file a site plan according to the chronicle investigation. Assuming it was correct, that makes it difficult to claim some procedural error was made when you deliberately didn't start the permit process.

We should be fiercely critical of any organization that's going to represent our city whether it's these owners or someone else. Their history shows patterns that everyone should be concerned about. I think that the criticism here is absolutely founded. I certainly believe in second chances. But sometimes wounds are too fresh to be overlooked and it's quite obvious that I'm not the only one that's flat out offended by it.

If anyone wants to see how a private aquarium should be run, check out the one in Denver. I don't believe we're getting something of that caliber.

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09/13/2013 Trouble mounts for Idaho Aquarium http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/09/13/2759615/troubles-mount-upfor-idaho-aquarium.html

If the Idaho Aquarium pleas guilty this is what will happen "In addition, the aquarium will be on probation for three years, undergo a financial and operational audit, pay $60,000 in criminal penalties and fees and pay $50,000 to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation. A judge still has to sign off on the plea agreement."

It's also interesting that Chris Conk is requesting the "non-profit" aquarium to reimburse him for his truck which was seized by federal agents used in the smuggling.

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From the last article Brian poster:

Re: the idaho aquarium

The board selected employee Amanda Davison to be the new director. When asked if he supported that decision, Covino told the Idaho Statesman, "No way. (She has) no business experience, no leadership qualities. She was the secretary."

W.....T......F.......

This is the owner of the organization who has basically been overridden by his BOD (who he presumable had to have been instrumental in forming?). Business 101 is being ignored at every opportunity here.

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Austin is severely lacking in quality public attractions. If you compare us to other medium and large cities, it's really a joke. We don't have any zoos, aquariums, museums, etc. that could possibly be considered equivalent to what you would find in most cities. Based on the reviews of the other aquariums, I don't want Austin's representation of an aquarium to be the same as those.

...It should also be pretty clear why Austin was a good candidate for a private aquarium. We have over a million people, a great economic environment, and absolutely no competing attractions within at least an hour....

Fantastic point. Who do we have to talk to in city government to get some motion towards better public attractions? I've been to what masquerades as a zoo in Austin, and it's pretty pathetic. I'm back in my hometown of Knoxville, TN, today, and I had forgotten how small it is, compared to Austin. But there's a great public zoo here, a planetarium, a decent art museum, and of course the world-famous Tennessee Aquarium is about an hour's jaunt south in Chattanooga. We have some great performing arts in Austin, and I know Sea World is right down the road, but seriously, Austin can do better than it is right now.

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Austin is severely lacking in quality public attractions. If you compare us to other medium and large cities, it's really a joke. We don't have any zoos, aquariums, museums, etc. that could possibly be considered equivalent to what you would find in most cities. Based on the reviews of the other aquariums, I don't want Austin's representation of an aquarium to be the same as those.

...It should also be pretty clear why Austin was a good candidate for a private aquarium. We have over a million people, a great economic environment, and absolutely no competing attractions within at least an hour....

Fantastic point. Who do we have to talk to in city government to get some motion towards better public attractions? I've been to what masquerades as a zoo in Austin, and it's pretty pathetic. I'm back in my hometown of Knoxville, TN, today, and I had forgotten how small it is, compared to Austin. But there's a great public zoo here, a planetarium, a decent art museum, and of course the world-famous Tennessee Aquarium is about an hour's jaunt south in Chattanooga. We have some great performing arts in Austin, and I know Sea World is right down the road, but seriously, Austin can do better than it is right now.

Without drifting too far off topic, this was one of the major reasons I took over the club. One of my primary goals is to continue to grow the hobby and support for it here in town to show that Austin is a great location for a public aquarium. That's also one of the primary motivations in having our annual C4 event. We're centrally located between the three other major cities in Texas. Ultimately if AA does a good job and shows that a private aquarium can be successful here that could strengthen this argument. Strangely enough, if they don't do a good job that could also help.

I think that we all want to see an aquarium here and see it done right (ethically, legally, etc.) which is why there is such activity in this thread. Time will tell how it plays out, but regardless it isn't the only option that Austin ultimately has for an aquarium.

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This topic has ceased to be productive and is now locked. There are plenty of other locations where the matter can be discussed, please do not start additional threads regarding the Austin Aquarium unless and until the store opens. At that time we'll have a moderated thread.

Please review the forum rules here.

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