+SChrisEV Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Hello all, I was hoping I could get some input on a sump design I am thinking about for a bit now. Little background first... It's been about 8 years since I've had a tank up and running, I miss it, it's way past time to get back into it. My old tank was a 135G "standard" 6 feet etc. It was a basic reef system nothing really exotic in the tank. I had a 35g tank that I used as a sump, all open no "sections". In the main tank I had a few inches of live sand and about 140lbs of live rock. Moving from CA to Austin I sold some, gave away other parts from the main tank. I kept the 35G and a few other items. When I got to Austin I picked up a 92G corner (quart round) tank for free from a friend, but never set the it up. Fast forward almost 8 years, and I started building a stand for the tank (I did not have one), it's not a standard corner stand, I wanted something different. SO far it's turned out nice, anyone interested I'll provide pics. Might even post another DIY on building the stand and canopy. Okay on to the sump/refugium. I'm using the same 35G tank (or plan to) but I want a refugium. I've looked at a lot of others designed, read a bit etc. and I came up with this, as my first draft: One thing I read was not to have too fast a flow through the refugium area, so that is why I parted from the basic Overflow/Skimmer/Refugium/Return flow. I guess first is what are the general thoughts on this? I'm not really looking for a debate on if I do/don't need a refugium just about this design. Some things that I might change first off: 1. Instead of using the valve on the return pump, might just use a small pump to feed the refugium so to not loose as much pressure back to the main tank. 2. Add baffles to the overflow from the refugium back to the return section, to keep "stuff" from falling over. I purposely did not provide actual dimensions for the different sections, but if someone feels strongly about the correct proportions please share that as well. I've also thought about NOT incorporating the refugium directly in the sump but having an external tank just for the purpose, and just plumb it back in, but likely use the same basic flow pattern. Much thanks to any that help! I look forward to getting your comments! Oh and very soon (I hope) I'll be in the market for Live Rock, and a lot of the other "basics". I'm on a budget so any creative ideas I'm all for! OH, and please forgive my SketchUp skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 14, 2012 Share Posted September 14, 2012 Looks just like mine! The only thing I'd suggest is make your return area bigger. It's where your evap will show up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckyuv Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Looks sweet! only thing i might possibly consider is instead of getting your water for the refugium from the overflow rather than the return so you do not loose pressure? also the water will have more nutrients coming from the un filtered water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Yeah, I have two comments. First comment is, you may be better off having nutrient rich water coming from your tank and going to your fuge (through a filter sock preferably) via an intake T than from your return which will reduce some of your pressure. In the event that you do choose to go the return pump to fuge route, you would have more control over the flow to the display and the fuge if you had 2 valves, one to control flow rate immediately after the pump outlet, and another to control the rate of flow diversion to the fuge. I think you'll be fine either way. The advantage of one way is that you have better conditions for your fuge (at the expense of complicating your influent from your tank) while the other route may have a little less nutrients to the fuge (primarily skimmed water from your protein skimmer) will simplify the intake plumbing at the expense of effluent flow rate to the display tank. good luck, glad to have you aboard! Definitely document your progress for yourself and for others who consider something like what you plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'll play devils advocate. Your skimmer will not skim 100% of the water it is fed, baring a direct feeding skimmer, so the fuge will still get 'dirty' water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
victoly Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 true, but if you could feed it a richer influent without serious concessions, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(Bio)³ Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Im about to build my next sump. I was planning on having three sections. From left to right, First section will have filter sock and DSB/rock rubble ontop it will be equal size as the next section. The second section will house a mud style fuge with mangroves and algae. The third section will be my skimmer and return pump. I was planning on using the return pump to run GAC and GFO reactors also, I might have to get a second pump to run these I'm not sure yet. I chose to do mine in that order because the sock will be mesh and not grab everything, eventually it will be removed when the system will want more nutrients in the water. The rock rubble will serve to break up matter as it falls into the sump, and DSB plus rock should give pods ample place to breed. Next in the mud fuge area remaining debris will get trapped and fuel the plants/algae there. Finally anything that gets further will be hit by the protein skimmer to sucked up and sent to the DT for a second round later on. I'm curious why you are having the return pump in the middle and separating the two other chambers? and what type of mechanical filtration if any will you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+SChrisEV Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Thanks for the comments! I could easily split the overflow water from the DT to both the skimmer area and the refugium, using a valve to control how much goes to each area. I like that idea for a few reasons, one, as many of you pointed out, I'll have more "dirty" water sent directly to the refugium, two I will not have to have a pump to push water to the refugium at all, saving energy and any heat it would give off, and will not loose any head pressure heading back to the tank. @Robb in Austin, when you say "make the return area bigger", do you have a "rule of thumb" for this? While I purposely did not put dimensions here the return section was set smaller by design, I wanted at much space in the refugium, as possible. When you say evap will show up, I did not show it, probably should have, but I plan to have an auto-top off that adds DI/RO water to the return area. Not to say that a super small return area will still be okay, but does that address your concern? @Bio the reason I'v designed to have the refugium not in the "main flow" of the sump is my understanding is you want a pretty calm flow through the refugium, but in turn I want to turn over my DT pretty quickly through the sump. Is this not correct? In the refugium itself, I was planning on having a DSB, as well as a good amount of rock rubble, and a few pieces of live rock, and algae. The idea/plan around this would be to grow pods, that I hope some will make their way back up to the DT. But to offset this, I will likely "swap" a piece of the in refugium live rock with a piece in the DT every now and then. With this change (water from DT) should I have a serpent star in there to eat and "bigger" items that make it in refugium? Also with a DSB do I want some sand sifting creatures? Overall I hope the answer is yes, after all, we are in this hobby for the fish, coral, and creatures right? This does lead to one of my question that was not addressed, Should I add baffles from the refugium to the return section? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb in Austin Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 I'm not sure if there is a rule of thumb for return area size, but like a fuge section; bigger is better. The return area in my sump is roughly 10" x 12" and I run it about 5" deep. I drop about 1-2" over the course of a day. If it was smaller, that drop would be more dramatic and puts the return pump at risk of running dry. An ATO will help surely, but then your ATO is constantly running to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subsea Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 SCEV, I would not add "sand sifting cucumbers" to a mud filter or refugium. IMO,they will consume your biodiversity. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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