Lagoon parameters

[jaggedfire]

My wife and I were the lucky winners of one of the lagoon tanks in April's Club meeting. I swung by on Tuesday night to picked it up and had an excellent discussion with Patrick about various aquatic systems and DSB's. Incredibly informative and genuinely awesome host!

We got to discussing questions and felt some of my curiosities would be best served in the forum for others to learn too. So here are a few about the lagoon!

What are the standard maintenance items on a tank that is mostly self regulating?

- Water changes?

- Light cycles for proper macro health

- Proper trimming of macro

- Water parameters (salinity, pH and dKH specifically)

There are others, but my mind fails me right now.

As another note, I tested the water to establish a baseline for the lagoon tank. This is the scientist/engineer in me that has the info, "just in case". I did these tests 24hrs after the move to let things settle in and so the water could clear up.

pH:8.2, Nitrates:0, Nitrites:0, Phosphates:0, dKH: 10; The water is perfect and everything is happy, not to mention it is awesome to watch the little molly fry swim about! My kids really like to watch this tank!

There is a small ruby emerald crab in the tank. Looks like a emerald crab, just red/pink. Another new to me creature!

Patrick, I haven't moved the rock with the mushrooms yet as I was out of room.

Thank you to all who donated and contributed to these, and the meeting. We had a great time, and now we get to learn about new methods and husbandry in the hobby.

Thank you!

[Nwehrman]

Very interested -- in the answers and following along.

Nicole

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[+KimP]

Great questions. I'm curious as well. You have your lagoon set up really well, I just brought mine home yesterday. I'll work on getting mine aquascaped soon. Did you look up any info on what lagoons are supposed to look like? I'm sure there are many ways to do it.

After picking the lagoon up I realized how much money and time went into this tank. I'm still in a bit of disbelief that this was a give-away! Huge thanks to subsea and everyone who pitched in. It was very generous of you!

[George Monnat Jr]

Those look just like my mollies! I lost 4 of my 6 molly fry, though. I think they got sucked into my return pump in the sump. I was really bummed for losing free, "just mollies".

[jaggedfire]

The mollies are fun to watch. Fry are voracious! The parents are healthy and seems they will have more fry soon.

5/3 Had a bloom of hydroids pop up

5/4 Flatworms on Saturday. The leather wasnt looking too good, but the algae growth is good and the mollies are cleaning the sides (eating) well. Added 1/2 GAC. White hermit climbed out of tank! (Found and put back)

5/5 LED light lost 3 diodes Added 2 spare CFL (25W 5.5K bulbs) All parameters are still stable

5/6 Wait for results.

5/7 Hydroids seems to have disappeared. Did a 50% WC last night and separated the dying leather and kenya tree to separate tanks to see if they respond. Found a pretty purple/grey flatworm (Good? Bad?) All parameters same.

[+KimP]

Sorry you lost part of the light, that's a bummer. The leather too. I'm surprised a leather didn't make it. If it was a devil's hand, I have several frags in mine I can share. What happened with the hydroids? How do you know you had a bloom of them? I don't know anything about hydroids so I'm curious...

How big is the flatworm?

[jaggedfire]

The leather isnt quite gone, but in decline. We'll see what it does in another tank. The kenya tree frag was in really bad shape and most all of it flaked off. I think this may be part of the 'warfare' that is happening. The tree is now in another tank and responding well.

The hydroids (described as what I have seen and read) disappeared after a bit of a temp spike on Sunday. I didnt note it but the tank temp was a bit elevated and haven't seen them since. They numbered in the hundreds on the front glass.

Looked like this http://cdn.saltwater...677hydroid.jpeg

The flatworms first showed on glass. quite small and longer than what I have seen in the past. After a few days, they showed a lighter patch inside the center of the body, but still have the characteristic double tail. Last night is when I saw the larger 'purple' flatworms, two infact, on a rock. They responded to a prod from a bamboo skewer to herd them around and were quite fast for such a small creature. Although they are not near as fast as the millions of 'pods in the tank, the flatworms seem to be throughout the tank including the lower levels of the substrate. I have tried to find an example photo with no luck.

For the lights, I will repair as I really like how the unit fit over the tank. Interestingly, only 3 units burned and didnt take out the entire string as the 'puck appears to be set for 1A...dont think the set is in 2s3p setup. I'll have to investigate.

[jaggedfire]

By the way Kim, how is the tank doing? Photos!?

[jaggedfire]

I know these things have probably been covered before, but to help anyone else out there here are some photos.

Larger Flatworm (in purple)

Smaller ones on glass

Kenya tree responding (dying part circled)

[cMidd]

looks fine to me....you sure it is flatworms that are "killing" the coral? have you tested nitrate / nitrite?

[jaggedfire]

They flatworms seem to be harmless but wanted to document and get an opinion on them. Dont think they are the issue with the coral at all though.

I do think the failing kenya tree ( part that is circled in the picture used to be ~2 inches, now 1/2 in.) has released some kind of toxin to cause the other corals stress. Saw it in the 25gal. when I cut the Kenya back with a razor...the slime was blown around and the other softies immediately shriveled up. Do note that I removed the kenya completely from this tank and is in another holding tank.

The nitrates and 'ites are both fine at 0. All parameters seem to be spot on. I dont think the carbon I had could handle the dying kenya though.

[cMidd]

Yea that's what I was going to ask next...softies have that nasty chemical stuff, was gonna ask about what kind of carbon / filtration you were using to remove that if it was dying. I'd just add more carbon...pretty though

[jaggedfire]

Thanks cMidd.

The tank seems to be rebounding and the softies are showing some perking up. Still have the flatworms and they seem to be growing in size but not necessarily number. Should I be concerned with them?

[subsea]

http://www.planarians.org/

I would not be too concerned with the flatworms. I once had an epedemic of red planaria. When smasked, they gave off a strong iodine smell. On their own, they are not a problem. As with all systems getting cycled, a multitude of different micro fauna and fana will compete for food.

With respect to the chemical warfare, it is usually between the softies and the hard corals. In my opinion, the mushrooms are the worst. I have found that activated carbon takes care of the problem.

I am not a big believer in water changes. I trust the aroggonite substrate as a buffer to maintain chemistry. I had not done any test since I set the tank up. Glad to hear that the chemisry is good. Since there is no denitrifying bacteria in this tank, all nitrate reduction has to be uptaken by the macros and the corals. When I saw the decline in the other softies, I attributed the problem to chemical warefare from the mushroom. Dilution is a temporary solution to a long term problem. In the case of chemical warefare, carbon and dilution treat the problem. In my larger systems with deep sand beds, Jaubert Plenumns and mud refugiums with vegatable filters, I do not do partial water changes.

With respect to photoperiod, I would go with 12 hours. If lights heat up water, reduce photoperiod or use cooling fans. The LED light strip was donated by Timfish. You should ask him about the componant details. If you monitor your pH when lights go out, expect it to drop. This lower pH with lights out will aid with the alkalinity buffering from the arrogonite. With respect to prunning macro, I use sissors to make a clean cut as oppossed to tearing it.

There is no one type of lagoon for aquascaping. Have fun with it. I enjoyed your pictures.

Patrick

[jaggedfire]

Thanks Patrick!

I agree the mushrooms seem to be aggressive in this little tank. It does seem the entire issue was from the small kenya tree that was failing. After the carbon was showing limited success, I had a 3 prong approach to diag the issue and save as much as possible with the other softies (mushrooms are fine!)

1. Large water change in tank to verify/rule out water contaminates
   
2. Move Leather with 100% tank water to small separate tank with same photo cycle to verify water is good (no carbon).
   
3. Move Kenya tree to separate tank (3rd tank) all together after cleaning off failing tissue
   

If the Leather hadn't shown a rebound, the water could be blamed but not confirmed. Being that the Leather showed a rebound in the normal tank water and the DT showed response with a water change, water parameters are ruled out as the cause. Removing the Kenya from both is the remaining culprit.

I, from the start, didn't want to start mucking with the water. It had been fine all along and who am I to change that! Only did a WC as a test condition.

I have a 12hr cycle on my other tank and tied the the lighting into the timers. So far this is working well, but I wanted confirmation from proper authorities.

On another note, the macros seem to be doing better also since the Kenya has exited with better coloration and more growth per day on the new tips.

Thanks again!

[subsea]

Getting back to your question about lagoon parameters, I will digress at this time.

http://www.fishchannel.com/saltwater-aquariums/aquarium-frontiers/natural-coral-reef.aspx

When you understand the zones involved in the natural enviroment of reef systems, one comes to appreciate harmony and nature. In most reefkeeping literature we are bombarded with stability in our reef systems. While dynamic equilibrium is the mode of operation in the ocean systems, the enviroment of the lagoon is a world of fluctuating conditions. Consider the mollies that went from fresh water to full strength marine. While I do not propose fluctuating conditions in our captive lagoon systems, I merely wish to bring up for discussion, that fluctuating conditions are the normal for many systems. Decide which groups of micro fauna and fana that you want to proliferate and then maintain those parameters in your lagoon tanks. In the late 1970's, John Tullock authored "Natural Reefkeeping" in which he suggested biothems as a reefkeeping method. Using a biotheme or a pivotal species, design your system around that concept. I propose the same thing within the lagoon system category. If you group critters that have the same needs and are compatiable, then produce those conditions in your tanks. With that guideline established, water parameters are up to the tank in question. In my 135G lagoon tank, I run specific gravity at 1.024, which is reef tank parameters. In KevinB lagoon brackish water tank, the specific gravity is under 1.015.

La bonne temp roulee,

Patrick